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Philip Hersh You Are Full Of It And Here Is Why

Jeff Grace | Profile
August 21, 2008

I have been thinking about how to attack this for a few days now. After the finish of the men’s 4 x 100 medley relay I didn’t know if it truly was something of incredible importance, but after listening and watching the reaction of the world towards Michael Phelps accomplishments at the Olympics I have come to realize that the subject matter is of great importance.

As most sociologists will tell you it is within human nature, especially in our day and age, for the masses to try to bring down those that have separated themselves from the norm, whether it be earned or not. We can see this in many areas of society and that has now demonstrated itself very powerfully in the case of the validity of Phelps accomplishments and where he should be in the hierarchy of the greatest athletes of all time.

In the past few days I have read many of the arguments basically saying yes what Phelps did was an accomplishment, but… I have also listened to many people in the public that don’t not only understand swimming, but high level sport, make arguments starting with, “I have read many articles that say…”

The problem is all these articles are opinions, most of them subjective (I had to put most because I have not read all of them, but if I have to go on the sample I have read the statement should be all). Now people are creating arguments and judgments in their minds based off of journalists who are stating their opinions.

In this piece I will write a rebuttal to the Chicago Tribune article written by Philip Hersh (http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/chi-15-olympics-greatest-hersh-maug15,0,4491274.story?page=1), since this article has gotten a lot of attention.

Longevity – This may the only argument that I can give credit to Mr. Hersh for making sense on an objective level. Phelps has not yet shown the longevity that many of the Olympians that Hersh has mentioned.

Here comes my but – he does not have the longevity, but he has already caught up to all of the athletes in total gold medals and surpassed them (Lewis, Nurmi and Latynina – 9 golds each, Fischer-Schmidt – 8 golds and Redgrave – 5 golds).

The usual argument for longevity goes to the fact that the athlete has not accumulated as many of whatever the measurement of success is when being compared to another athlete.

Let’s take baseball, Hersh wrote an article on who the best left handed pitcher of all time was and compared Sandy Koufax and Warren Spahn the last statement in this piece Hersh wrote, “Spahn never would be anything more than what he was, a pitcher who won more than twice as many games as Koufax, a lefty whose legacy is 363 victories, the best lefty ever.”

Phelps still has to prove that he can keep going, but he has surpassed these other greats in total accomplishments, by a lot!

Ability to Recover – Hersh uses a quote from track star Marie-Jose Perec of France to prove his argument. Perec states, "You can't compare track and swimming. In swimming you can recover. You can do five races in a day and get world records in all of them. That's impossible in our sport."

It is interesting that Hersh used this quote as evidence for two reasons. First Phelps did not do five races in a day and get world records in all of them. The most world records he set in one day was two.

Secondly the date was May 25, 1935 in the span of 45 minutes the great Jesse Owens broke three world records (220-yard, broad jump, 220-yard low hurdles) and tied one (100-yard). If I am correct Owens accomplished this without the modern means of recovery through nutrition, physiologically monitored warm downs or massage/physiotherapy.

Track athletes may not dare to do it today, but it has been done.

Note: Owens accomplished this feat after injuring his back severely falling down a flight of stairs a week before the meet.

Swimming World Records are Meaningless - The pools are better, the suits are better, therefore swimming faster than anyone in history is meaningless – interesting. I am not going to attack this argument saying that technology has not made a difference.

Instead let’s look at Phelps before the suit – world records in the 200 free, 200 IM, 200 Fly and 400 IM – let’s look at Phelps after Beijing – world records in the 200 free, 200 IM, 200 fly and 400 IM.

So let’s say (which I don’t believe) that technology has made swimming world records meaningless, Phelps has shown that he is the best the world has ever seen in a LZR or not.

False Starts – Hersh makes an argument saying – “Swimming offers three relays with the risk of a false start minimal.”

Let’s examine that. Since most of his arguments at this point in the article compare swimming to track, in a track event from a flat start the first false start is charged to the field if any runner false starts on the second start they will be disqualified. Compared to swimming where if you false start you are gone – no second chances period.

The only reasons false starts are more likely in track is because they are allowed.

Now the rules in relays are the same in track and in swimming, (except for the lead off which is the same as a flat start) if one member false starts the team is disqualified. Correct me if I am wrong, but in both situations a false start is more likely since there are four athletes that could false start in one race.

Every Event May As Well Be The Same – I am only going to take Phelps as the example here – he raced in events that span from 47 seconds to 4 minutes and 3 seconds.

Let’s first look at the requirements of energy metabolism to be successful in all of the events he raced in Beijing. In the 100 a swimmer has to have a superior anaerobic energy system and to be successful in the 400 they have to have a superior aerobic energy system. Anyone who knows anything about training knows that to develop the physiological properties to be successful in that range of events is extremely, extremely difficult – that is why you do not see it happen except for Phelps.

When we look at the four strokes, to truly evaluate Phelps performances you need to look at the coordination (and unlike most think there is more to coordination than hand eye) that it takes to perform each stroke to a level where you can be considered the best at the world.

Yes there have been the Matt Biondis, the Michael Grosses, etc… of the world that have shown that they can be top level flyers and freestylers, but where are the other examples of those that can lay legitimate claim to being amongst the best in the world (if not the best in the world) in both the 100 and 200 meter distances in fly, back and free and then in the 200 and 400 IM? There aren’t any, except for Phelps!

Hersh you are full of it.



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Medina posted September 4 at 2:42am.
I have just received a responce as well. Surprising as it may be it is exactly the same as the one Erik has posted below. I'm a bit disappointed that it seems to be a generic e-mail but i'm not sure we could have really expected anything else.
Jeff Grace posted September 3 at 6:22pm.
Erik - Thanks for sharing that - I sent this article to his email address at the Tribune and I will post his response if I receive one.
Erik posted September 3 at 12:04pm.
A letter back from the man, interesting to say the least.

Thanks for writing.
Sorry it took me so long to respond. I was rather busy in China.
I meant everything I said about the nature of swimming as it lends itself to winning multiple medals and the limited global nature of its competition -- which neither diminishes how demanding a sport swimming is or how remarkable Phelps achievement is in the context of his sport and sport in general. I think you should re-read more carefully what I wrote.
Certainly, there was an element of hyperbole involved in saying 3 of swimming's 4 strokes are the same (rather than using the word ``similar''); the point was to contrast the similatities with track, where, for instance, no elite high jumper also is an elite pole vaulter (both are classified as vertical jumps); few elite long jumpers have equal success in the triple (Chicago's own Mike Conley is an exception, but he made an Olympic team only in the triple, even though both are classified as horizontal jumps); and only in the decathlon/heptathlon do track athletes attempt to master several events, yet they usually can be truly on an individual-event basis only in one or two of the disciplines, and even that is rare. It is not that unusual for a swimmer to be national and even world elite in 2 or 3 strokes (plus the IM); it is very unusual for anyone to be as good as Phelps is.
Facts are facts: swimming is no more global a sport than rowing or canoe-kayak.
At Beijing, in 16 canoe-kayak events, 19 countries won medals; in 14 rowing events, 20 countries won medals; in 34 swimming events, 21 countries won medals. No two countries won half the gold and total medals in canoe or rowing, as Australia and the United States did in swimming. (In track and field's 47 events, 42 countries won medals.) Of those four sports, swimming had the lowest ratio of countries winning medals per total events. Yes, there are more swimmers worldwide than rowers or canoe-kayakers, but at the elite level, swimming's competition is less diverse.
Facts: since 1924, no one in track and field has won more than 4 medals in a single Olympics; since 1972, a dozen swimmers have won 5 or more medals. It is statistically apparent that it is easier to win multiple medals in swimming than in track (which is not to say doing it in either sport is easy, per se, and I never said that).
Facts: the tidal wave of swimming world records in 2008 clearly owes more to suit technology than training or technique. They are so statistically anomalous in comparison with the sport's history as to render the idea of a record silly. Records that stood 10 years or more would be broken in prelims or semis and final. And not in just one event by one extraordinary swimmer, like Phelps, but in every event, over and over. In terms of record-breaking, what Spitz did in 1972 may be more significant than what Phelps did in 2008, even if Phelps was often not wearing the full suit. (A difference is in the Spitz era, swimmers usually did all their record-breaking in the Olympic year; the addition of worlds, now biennial, and the money in the sport, allowing many swimmers to continue past college or turn pro before college, has changed those parameters). But the Italian coach who called the suits technological doping was right on the mark. Twenty-five world records fell during the Olympics; only a few events have not seen a WR broken this year.
Best / PH
Chris posted August 25 at 4:23pm.
Great job on this article... i was getting sick of philip hersh... also you should argue that while the swimmers are wearing nicer "swimsuits", track stars are wearing better running shoes...
H posted August 25 at 10:15am.
omg hersh is full of it. nice work on this article. i can't believe anyone would argue with Michael Phelp's achievements.
Josh posted August 24 at 1:39pm.
This article just really goes to show how little modern day sportscasters research the sports they discuss. Since they know absolutely nothing about swimming, they revert to a sport that they are still vaguely informed on (track) to compare it to.
Vinny Fiamengo posted August 23 at 10:39pm.
kickass article
Agreed. posted August 23 at 6:53pm.
damn right i'm humorless and defensive...what hersh said in his articles was equally humorless, and offensive. he seems surprised at the inevitable (and dare i say logical) response.
Medina posted August 23 at 6:33pm.
"humorless and defensive"?
"looks terrific and exciting on TV but is a horrible live spectator experience"?

2 of numerous quotes that could be given from hersh regarding swimmers and swimming.
what a douchebag.
(read this article. you will get so angry.)
again...DOUCHEBAG!
Jeff Grace posted August 23 at 3:13pm.
The latest - obviously through the number of emails he has gotten he knows that he has attracted a bigger audience who will keep reading as long as he keep yapping

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/olympics/cs-080822-olym…
Jeff Grace posted August 23 at 2:40pm.
On the prompting of many of you I have sent this to the tribune. I will let you know if and when I get a response.

I would encourage you guys to visit
http://www.sportsscientists.com
They continue to write about some interesting and very good points about the sports scene in general.
Anna posted August 23 at 12:47pm.
I love you
Marry me
This all makes perfect sense
Megan posted August 23 at 12:40pm.
hey
i am a 14 year old swimmer and i have read the articles hersh has written about phelps and even dara torres. he tried to compare her to basketball players and softball players?

i think this was very well written i think you should send it to the voice of the people at the chicago tribune and have it published!
did you send him this?
Scott Hays posted August 23 at 9:42am.
I played traitional sports in high school. (The 70's) The only the I knew about swimming was Mark Spitz. My daughter is now a competitive swimmer. I officiate and follow swimming extinsively. After having watched her swim at her and her team mates practice and compete for years, I can't think of a sport that I ever competed in that could compare to swimming. Although she does compete in year round competition, during her high school season, her regular season meets are held in about a 2 hour period. There, she swims 4 events. Granted, she's not breaking world records, but she's coming close to state records. She swims fly, IM, Freestyle, depending on the meet. It about kills her.

I was a hurdler in track, and was one of the top 3 in the state of Colorado my senior year in high school. I worked my tail off for years, and then went on to college. I competed in other events as well. Nothing in track could have ever compared to the work out these kids, even at the level she's at go through. She's in the water 2-3 hours a day right now. Phelps is in the water what, 30 hours a week? He calls Phelps a water bum? Was that the term? What athlete doesn't devote themselves to their sport? Football players, basketball players, they are all working their sport 365 these days.
I agree, his job is to create controversy, but he does need to have a little more knowledge of which he speaks, so he can at least have a little more than the one sided conversation that he generally has.
Anonymous Coward posted August 23 at 7:09am.
I cant stand michael Johnson i think its time he was replaced on the BBC
Dm posted August 22 at 5:47pm.
Very well put Jeff. You should see if you can get that published in the same newspaper. I think the biggest problem with all of this is the lack of knowledge of the sport; people just don't understand how it works and what it takes to be good at swimming. And not just swimming in general, but what it takes to be good at fly, or at free (any distance at that), etc. The other problem is lack of trust in athletes. By that I mean how everyone thinks they're all on drugs. A few baseball players ruin it for everyone.
Matt Salzberg posted August 22 at 2:42pm.
I think Philip Hersh is just the tip of the iceberg. I was just buying some sneakers and the guy who owns the running store was a competitive national level runner for years back in the 1970's, and he said, without any provocation or opening for doubt, that essentially every single athlete at the olympics (be it swimmers, especially in the case of Dara Torres he said, Jamaica going 1-2-3 for the women's 100m, and everything in between) that all the athletes were doped. And that only those who were stupid enough to be caught were caught.

Being a runner, he also reiterated the above points- that it's easier to train a swimmer because of less wear-and-tear on the body; that swimming world records don't mean anything because the pools are different, the suits are better, etc... And the most absurd thing he said was that "Phelps is a swim bum." As an example of a professional olympic athlete, all he does is swim (first off, to put swim and bum in the same sentence is just nonsense).
It just angers me that people with very little knowledge about the sport are so in belief that the athletes are drugged up (see Yahoo! Sports page responses to the 8 golds, in saying "wait for the drug tests"). And that, although people honestly don't understand the difference in difficulty between a 100 fly and a 400 IM, they agree that while his 8-golds was impressive, that since it's swimming, it's all the same.
Perhaps the scariest time in swimmings transition to a major sport will be this period of doubt about the validity of the athletes. NBC just signed on to broadcast live US Nationals until the 2012 OT's, and also at least 2009 Worlds. So hopefully this misunderstanding about swimming will disappear in the coming weeks, months, and years.
Agreed posted August 22 at 2:14pm.
good points, agree with everything that you said. i've read that article in the past and it just complete pissed me off. esp the part about the recovery. i HATE it when people think that the different aspects of swimming can be generalized just by watching it for a little bit. i honestly think that a lot of non swimmers are too ignorant to accept the fact that swimming is a hard sport (and in fact probably one of the hardest).
The Screaming Viking! posted August 22 at 1:44pm.
Can't we just have Michael Phelps run a 400 and Michael Johnson swim a 100? Then they could argue about which one was harder and which one was closer to a world class performance. Then MJ would at least have something real to reference when he makes his delusional comments.
Medina posted August 22 at 7:56am.
(I was kind of waiting for someone on FloSwimming to write a responce to this piece!)
I read Hersh's article a few days back and I sent an e-mail to the address at the bottom of the article. I did not receive a responce or even a notice that the message had been acknoledged.
I'm sure there were a good few e-mails sent and it wouldn't be feasible to respond to all individually. But how hard is it to forward a "Thank you for your comments" to those who decided to voice their own opinion.

Hersh is ignorant (and not in the you're annoying and I don't like you way, but in the true meaning of the word). He clearly has no extensive knowledge of the subject of what he's writing about.
Girls and boys, we all know he's wrong. We are much smarter and we're not petty enough to start slagging off the great acomplishments that other sports men and women have made.
Alex posted August 22 at 4:25am.
That greavers has trained backstroke up to this years games doesn't mean he hasn't the last 10+ years...
Anonymous Coward posted August 21 at 5:01pm.
Here in Britian we have Michael Johnson (the runner lol) commentating. All he has done for the past week is tell us all how hard track events are and how hard you have to train. Apparently 'swimming is easy you can just go up and down, and thats your training done' Yep he actually sed those exact words.
Jeff Grace posted August 21 at 4:35pm.
Crocker does still own it - don't think that I put that Phelps does - also here is a great link to an interesting article

http://www.sportsscientists.com/search?updated-max=2008-08-1…
Article posted August 21 at 4:29pm.
I understand that this guy's job is to make enough bold statements that generate readers and encourage discussion. It wouldn't anger me so much if the points he was making had some sort of factual backing, but it is so painfully clear that he doesn't know a single thing about swimming.
Yes, track absolutely pounds a runner's body, but doesn't swimming do the same to a swimmer's shoulders?? How many world-class swimmers have had to cut their careers short because of unending shoulder problems?
And I would agree that the LZR suits have lessened the meaning of WR's, but Phelps greatest accomplishment is the number of gold medals he won, and he beat all the other swimmers who were wearing the same suit.
I don't like hearing all the hoopla about Phelps being the greatest athlete ever anymore than Hersh. It is undoubtedly untrue. He couldn't even be considered good at any other sport. However, this is true for almost every single excellent athlete. There are so few that are able to excel in more than one sport, so why demean Phelps' accomplishments because he cannot also be a great basketball player?
I love that swimming is getting attention, but I hate that people are learning about it from schmucks like this.
Agreed posted August 21 at 4:10pm.
Hersh sounds so ignorant and misinformed that it is hilarious to read.

Last year at world championships Crocker false started, and two years ago at NCAA Men's Championship two teams in the running for the team title false stated on a relay. It does happen.

Also running may have a lot of impact but water is many times more dense than air, making it 4 times more physiologically stressful to swim a certian distance than run that same distance.
"You can do five races in a day and get world records in all of them." What?! When has this ever happened? This a completely rididculous comment.
He seems to be using Phelps accomplishments to prove swimming is not a difficult sport. Phelps accomplishments are amazing, proving him to be possibly the best athlete ever (I'm sure that statement would upset Hersh greatly), but his amaziing feats do not prove it is easier for swimmers.
One last thing, Track has been a sport for much longer than swimming, with sophisticated training methods being used a long time before the same methods were applied to swimming. This explains why world records are not as commonly broken in track, new suits do not make world record swimmers.
Amen posted August 21 at 4:06pm.
...not that it matters, I do agree with your rebuttal to Hersh's article, but Crocker still owns the WR in the 100 Fly . . . but then again who cares, right?
About Time posted August 21 at 3:01pm.
YEAH!

fight ignorance with facts.
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