Swimming Blogs - Brett Hawke


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Pump the Breaks Craig Lord

Brett Hawke | Profile
May 18, 2009

The swimming community gets it: Craig Lord does not approve of the new swim suit technology. He's beaten that poor horse to the point of breaking Barbaro's other legs. Time to give a rest, Craig. It is not all about the suits. Your latest article, "Why Ruin Rome With A(nother) Lie?" called out one of my athletes in particular in a manner that borders on defamation of character. You claimed, several times over, that Fred Bousquet was not capable of breaking the 21 second barrier without the suit. You are 100% confident that the suit is the reason he went as fast as he did. You are sure that Fred is not as fast as he is without the suit. However, Alain Bernard wore the same suit. He didn't break 21 seconds. The Jaked you hate so much was worn by several athletes at the Olympic games, yet none of them broke 21 seconds. I knew before we left for France that Fred was capable of breaking 21 seconds, regardless of the suit he chose to wear. While you move forward attacking this new generation of suits, make sure you are aiming in the right direction. Attacking the athletes is shooting yourself in the foot.

Whether you intended to or not, your article took away from Fred the hard work that he has put-in the last year. You have discredited my coaching, Coach Quick's coaching, and the ability of my athletes because of your own hatred of a swimming suit. Craig, you have speculated and surmounted outrages quotes to point out your own personal view in a format that was once considered news. In doing so, you may see yourself as a martyr for the "purity of the sport", but sacrificing my athletes and the work I've put into coaching them along the way is unacceptable.

This is an exciting time for swimming. Rather than embrace the amazing racing that is going
on, you chose to dwell on the suits. Fine, but when you start attacking the athletes how is that helping the sport? Must I remind you that Fred was the first man to break 19 seconds in a yard pool? Remember the suit he wore then? Remember how much he obliterated 19 seconds by? It wasn't the suit then. The truth is, Fred has always had the talent to do amazing things. He is in the best shape of his life and he is smart enough to swim in the best suit he can find. And you don't think he's capable of swimming like he has? Did you watch the 50 freestyle in Charlotte? Cullen Jones was wearing one of the suits you hate. Half of the final heat was wearing the exact same suit at Fred. Fred beat the field by over half a second in the fifty. That was not the suit Craig. Its was Fred.

Should Michael Jordan have played out his career in Chuck Taylors? Should Usain Bolt sprint in flat shoes even while everyone else in the race wears spikes? According to your way of thinking, which has been made VERY evident on Swimnews.com, Jordan was only great because of his shoes. Just like Fred is only great because of his suit. And while you haven't had the guts to come out and say it yet: Why don't you just admit that the only reason Michael Phelps won eight gold medals and broke all those world records was because of the suit he wore doing so. According to your comments, it couldn't have been because of coach Bowman. It couldn't have been because of all the work he put in. And it surely wasn't about how amazing Phelps is as an athlete. Its about the suit, isn't it Craig? I have a hard time believing that. The swimming world has a hard time believing that. And you know they do. That is why you haven't attacked Phelps. No no. That guy is off limits. But my French athlete, coached by an Australian at Auburn, he pretty much deserves to be attacked. Nobody likes French people at Auburn, do they Craig? So you took the green light to destroy everything he has accomplished.

I'm not sure why you think you have an obligation to write about non-american athletes the way you do. But you are done comparing my athletes to cheaters from thirty years ago. Write what you like, you have the right. But when you choose to drag my athletes through the mud because of the suits on their bodies or the caps on their heads, I will personally address it.

In the meantime, my athletes will keep training, eating and breathing swimming while you sit behind a computer and try to write about it. My swimmers will get faster and stronger while you sip your diet coke and figure out ways to take away their accomplishments. And one day, when that loose screw in your head tightens up, I hope it will occur to you that the things you wrote about Fred Bousquet and so many other athletes, weren't only false, but hurtful and wrong. Not only that, but you've done more to hurt swimming than help it. It is not all about the suit. It is time for you to stop discrediting everything that goes into developing phenomenal athletes because of your hatred of sewn together fabric.



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Cesar is going back to Brasil
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Anonymous Coward   September 1, 2010 at 10:31pm
I saw him speak today at the ASCA clinic. Every single thing I heard from him I heard Paul Yetter say at a clinic earlier this year. WTF?!?
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Megaupload   August 9, 2010 at 1:29pm
i listed about him, he really very nice swimmer...
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Eags   July 28, 2010 at 1:09pm
Hawke smokes balls and licks on the juice
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Anonymous Coward   July 26, 2010 at 7:44pm
actually he never won any olympic medal, but i guess you are just a moron...
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brett hawke one of the greatest swimmers? no way. didn't win an individual olympic medal in his life. c'mon, you aren't one of the greatest in history if you've never won an olympic individual medal
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i on this site...
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Anonymous Coward   June 7, 2010 at 10:04am
Greedy? Why, did he want to be paid more money? That's business bra. This site is like a swimsite cemetary.
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#400
Effing Your Mom   June 7, 2010 at 9:30am
this site is dead because garrett is a greedy bastard...period
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#399
Anonymous Coward   June 7, 2010 at 6:42am
People not knowing what they are talking about is not why the site is dead. The site is dead because of other factors. Brett is a punk -- and that's an entirely different subject.
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#398
Stfu   June 7, 2010 at 1:40am
http://www.swimmingworldmagazine.com/lane9/news/22176.asp

He is an American. This is why this site is dead because people like you do not know what they are talking about.
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#397
Usa Mofo!   June 6, 2010 at 7:55am
the guy isn't even a freakin american and the program is full of imported talent...go jackoff a dog
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#396
Shinju   June 5, 2010 at 8:02pm
totally over rated coach. dude fell in to a top position with top swimmers who were already world record caliber. Auburn is going down.

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#395
Anonymous Is The Coward   June 4, 2010 at 10:25am
Brett wants Craig Lord to pump his ass, not the brakes....
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Anonymous Coward   May 28, 2010 at 12:30pm
I heard Steph Horner is leaving, from the deck of the Ultraswim. Olympic swimmer from Canada.
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#386
Jeff In   May 28, 2010 at 8:14am
who else is AU losing?
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#385
Anonymous Coward   May 26, 2010 at 5:09pm
Much better coach for a few people, not a whole team full of people who want to get good. I know for a fact that AU is losing and has lost more people than Knutson.
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#384
Durham   May 26, 2010 at 3:49pm
Brette Hawke as head coach = epic fail
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#382
Democratic   May 23, 2010 at 7:06am
Yetter knew what he was doing getting out of Auburn
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#381
Concurd   May 22, 2010 at 8:29pm
The greatest hype in swimming. Cal is the team of the future....Durden/Mckeever dominate Auburn. There are so many better coaches/swimmers.
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#380
Anonymous Coward   May 21, 2010 at 4:45pm
Yetter moved to Florida to coach a club there
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#379
Shaolin   May 21, 2010 at 1:08pm
Agreed. This program is in trouble. The men will be fair, but they have no women and no coaches.

Anyone know what happened with Yetter?
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Anonymous Coward   May 15, 2010 at 9:06pm
biggest joke in swimming after a great 2009 with the suits and nothing in 2010
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Anonymous Coward   April 8, 2010 at 7:12pm
kinda funny to see after all this bs. what a joke.
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Auburn - Jaked = FAIL
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#371
Karl   March 27, 2010 at 3:02pm
yeah but look at the Auburn team this year without the suits. the guys just aren't as good as they think they are
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#370
Monica   March 27, 2010 at 12:04pm
It seems to me it is foolish to think that a suit is the reason of good results. Well, I believe it may help to reduce water resistance (I watched a nice film about it, I found it at rapidshare SE http://rapidpedia.com ) but not to help to win. Really a lot of sportsmen wore such suits and they didn't win.
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#365
Slather Me A Billabong   February 9, 2010 at 11:34am
no jaked = no championship son
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#364
JK Rowling   January 22, 2010 at 6:11pm
I seriously doubt your team will be a factor at NCAAs this year without the cheat suits. BTW if you feel that MR. Lord was close to libel, you should hold yourself to a better standard, because you ARE libelous right here. Your swimmers are only OK talents--the suits made them better. Unfortunately no one believes for a second that any of them will pose a real threat without them. Best to try flippers next!
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#363
Evan K   August 18, 2009 at 3:56am
i think your absolutely right. but to be honest (being a sprinter myself), winning the sprint race is 40% physical, 40% mental prep, 20% luck. The suits that the swimmers are wearing these days help with the 40% mental prep as well as the 20% luck. The physical is all the same (IMHO). Do not take away from the hard work put in by the swimmers and coaches; as you are blaming the wrong crowd. When it comes down to competition, you do what is necessary and you get the best stuff to win. The suits probably work better for certain people, but wont make much a difference (as long as everyone has them). As for records, that's unfair for obvious reasons. Should be two categories at a bare minimum. I'm glad that the suits will eventually be cheap and relatively fair again, but I think that some of the performances since they came out are looked down upon. There were some awesome races in the last few years, and I personally think that most people have started to forget about that with all this dumb suit stuff (remember Lezak with that out-of-this-world anchor on the relay?) Let's appreciate the sport for what it is, and not the specifics like the suits. But at the same time let's make it fair; because what's the point of competing to be the best if you subconsciously know it was tainted? Let's bring this sport to the genuine level it used to be; and turn away from the magnetic pull of major league baseball and professional road biking with the doping, etc aimed towards making the sport more appealing to watch (profitable). Swimming is a sport of hard work. The suits are only there to complicate the situation. But DO NOT discredit the performances done with those suits; just remember that there were some really good races that came out of the last few years regardless of the suit technology.
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#362
Evan K   August 18, 2009 at 3:36am
word.
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#361
Danny Brebrick   August 17, 2009 at 5:54pm
this is AWESOME
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#360
Anonymous Coward   August 14, 2009 at 6:31pm
Right on, Coach Hawke.
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#359
Sergio   August 14, 2009 at 3:19pm
all the credits for Brett.
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#358
This Is A Swim Site?   August 11, 2009 at 4:57pm
Straw Bale said:
But, he will probably have a hard time breaking Popov's 21.64 (2000, in a speedo) under 2010-rules.

BTW, the other men's LC free-style WRs when retrospectively (re)set to 2010 rules (in a jammers or a speedo) would be:

100m free: Popov 48.21 (Monaco, 1994)
200m free: Thorpe 1.46.00 (Pan Pacs, 1999)
400m free: Thorpe 4.01.83 (Pan Pacs 1999)
800m free: Perkins 7.46.00 (Commonwealth, 1994)
1500m free: Perkins 14.41.66 (Commonwealth, 1994)
Thus: no Van den Hoogenband, no Phelps and no Hackett !
thorpe had a full body on.
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#357
Maxdb   August 11, 2009 at 4:55pm
Max Argie said:
Craig is right, Fred has broken 21 just because of the suit. He is a gret swimmer, maybe top 10 in 50 free, but not faster than Popov... Let's wait for 2010, we will then see how much suits were helping. I'm pretty sure Cielo will remain the best, but Bousquet will not (too much muscle). And Phelps will beat Biedrmann.

Straw Bale: Phelps broke Thorpe's 200 free in Melbourne 07 without LZR so that might be the WR if LZR + Jaked + X-Glide + Hydrofoil WR are banned.
way to go your just so smart did you read this article?

btw i did your Mom in the a$$. and she had a tattoo that said "Fred is my man" on her left cheek
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#355
Max Argie   August 7, 2009 at 2:26pm
Craig is right, Fred has broken 21 just because of the suit. He is a gret swimmer, maybe top 10 in 50 free, but not faster than Popov... Let's wait for 2010, we will then see how much suits were helping. I'm pretty sure Cielo will remain the best, but Bousquet will not (too much muscle). And Phelps will beat Biedrmann.

Straw Bale: Phelps broke Thorpe's 200 free in Melbourne 07 without LZR so that might be the WR if LZR + Jaked + X-Glide + Hydrofoil WR are banned.
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#354
Todd Kramer   July 29, 2009 at 12:08pm
You're wrong on some of those records. I know that Phelps orignally broke the 200m free in either a pro or FS-II Jammer(I think it was a pro but had designs on it to make it look like the FS-II). That would be the WR in the 200 Free. I think you're wrong on the 100 free and 1500 free also.
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#353
Straw Bale   July 29, 2009 at 6:50am
But, he will probably have a hard time breaking Popov's 21.64 (2000, in a speedo) under 2010-rules.

BTW, the other men's LC free-style WRs when retrospectively (re)set to 2010 rules (in a jammers or a speedo) would be:

100m free: Popov 48.21 (Monaco, 1994)
200m free: Thorpe 1.46.00 (Pan Pacs, 1999)
400m free: Thorpe 4.01.83 (Pan Pacs 1999)
800m free: Perkins 7.46.00 (Commonwealth, 1994)
1500m free: Perkins 14.41.66 (Commonwealth, 1994)
Thus: no Van den Hoogenband, no Phelps and no Hackett !
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#352
Anonymous Coward   July 17, 2009 at 6:40pm
Brett, don't kid yourself, Fred would have NOT broken 21 if he did not wear the Jaked. But he IS the fastest 50 freestyler.
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#351
Oco   July 17, 2009 at 5:14pm
I don't think so. An example is the Nike Air, or the Nike Zoom. I am a track runner also, and have witnessed the effects first hand. It was a relevant comparison.
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#350
OCO   July 17, 2009 at 5:11pm
Very nicely said. I agree
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#349
Proof   June 28, 2009 at 2:28pm
FB 21.1. That just happened.
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#348
Tyler   June 28, 2009 at 1:08pm
You can't compare Jordan's shoes to a swim suit. A suit has FAR more effect than a pair of sneakers.
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#347
Kevin McGrath   June 22, 2009 at 3:39pm
Lorde acts as though Bousquet is beating everyone because of his suit, when the truth is competition is wearing the same or similar suits. Did the suit help Bousquet break 21? Probably. Is the suit what makes Bousquet the best sprinter in the world? Absolutely not!
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#346
Anonymous Coward   June 8, 2009 at 11:42am
You tell 'em, Coach Hawke.
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#345
Anonymous Coward   June 8, 2009 at 10:28am
Fred would maybe have not been able to go sub 21 at that point in time, but there is no doubt in my mind that he would have been sub 21 before anyone else. It also seems a little hypocritical to attack certain swimmers for wearing fast suits when it seems like everyone is wearing a fast suit. Just because they did not wear your suit does not mean that they cheated. But all sports progress forward and this seems to be the time that swimming is going forward technology and stroke wise. I am not quite sure in my view at this time, but all i can say is keep up the great work Brett and congrats Fred.
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#344
WearingSixtyNineJakeds   June 1, 2009 at 6:55pm
DB, thank you for your reply. I think it's cool you can feel that way... Being proud of your own accomplishments while not worrying about technological advancements skewing the all-time result list. I disagree but I respect your opinion.
To me, being against suits isn't the same as wishing swimming back into "The Dark Ages"... It's about keeping some sort of purity. To me, swimming was about who could best adapt to racing conditions such as no waves (thanks to lane ropes) and clear vision (thanks to goggles). But that was it. It was still you against (or rather with) the water. Now, it's about who can best adapt to what the suit gives you. Maybe there's no difference in the mentioned advancements. Some people benefit from wearing fins or handpaddles more than others too. I just have a very hard time accepting that swimming in tech suits is the same sport as before.
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#343
Jack   June 1, 2009 at 1:46pm
Josh Shell said:
who reads Swimnews anyways?
Not I.
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#342
Blastoff   June 1, 2009 at 12:57pm
WearingTenJakeds, I frankly don't care where I am on the all-time list. I don't need to point to the listy to know I was fast. Just as John Naber does not have to look to the list to make me inpressed by his accomplishments.

Asking how I can like having guys who probably would be hard pressed to go under 55 pass me on the list because of suits is not really a big deal. It's an apples to oranges comparison. Could I have gone 52 with the suits? Maybe. I don't know. Could have Naber gone 51 with some underwater, no touch turns, and a Jaked? These are simply silly hypotheticals.
I think innovation in swimming is great--swimsuits included. We just need to make a system for the suits that controls the innovation somewhat.
D
P.S. I am still in the top 50 for the 50.
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#341
WearingTenJakeds   May 31, 2009 at 7:32am
David Berkoff,

Huge respect for your achievements and revolutionary underwater abilities... That being said:
Shouldn't you be against "evolution" in the form of props? Wouldn't you find it a little more acceptable if you were number 231 on the all-time 100 back list if it was the result of better coaching, better nutrition, better bla-bla instead of 200 of those guys ahead of you just putting on a rubber suit and swimming faster than you ever did in briefs? You find it okay to allow flippers which dramatically change the properties (in this case, size ;-) ) of people's feet and allow them to swim faster without ever working harder/better than you?
Because that's what the suits do... They change the properties of swimmers' bodies, allowing them to swim faster than naturally possible. I believe from experience that the same is true already from Aquablade jammers (1996) onwards, but I'm divided as to how far back we should go. I think pre Feb-2008 is ok, since world records were falling left and right AS SOON AS the LZR was released... Mid-season world records in Missouri and Sydney AS SOON AS it was first used... Unreal
My point is; swimming is not moving forward if Fred Bousquet only swims faster than Alex Popov with a suit on. If they race under similar conditions and Fred wins, more power to him... and Brett
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#340
Blastoff   May 29, 2009 at 12:28pm
Right on the Money, Brett.

SwimNews has simply become Craig Lord's internet soapbox. Every two "articles" is either a series of mysterious quotes, out of context statements, and a lot of Chicken-Little-Sky-is-falling dogma. He clearly has a single-minded view of the suit issue and seems to want to will the sport back into the Dark Ages.
I 'll say it again, I agree there needs to be some control on what suits should be allowed. That is clearly FINA's task and perhaps is a universal frustration of those of us who are outsiders. We all want to know what suit to buy (lest we waste $500). We all want to know that the suit we do purchase will be allowed next year and the year after. We all want to know that we won't have to fork out another $500 the next season because the rules and technology have changed dramatically again. The problem is consistency and slowed control of the technology.
However, to blame the problem on the mere existence of the suits is plain stupid. The concept (and it appears that Mr. Lord's writings want us to believe this is true) that any "hack" or fat and undertrained swimmer can jump into the pool and become a world class swimmer is just ridiculous. Indeed, Lord's last post seems to assert that FINA is ipromoting the idea that if a swimmer does not possess the Adonis form of Popov, they are not a true athlete. Beside being kind of "icky" on many levels, it stands on the edge of an endorsement of racial Eugenics!
The fact is that 90% of the swimmers swimming great times in these suits are familiar faces! I, too, agree that Fred Bosquet is an amazingly talented athlete and has always been capable of world records. He dominated college sprinting here in America. (Mr. Lord's poo-pooing of Bosquet's short course feats is telling in the fact that he has posted articles on SwimNews before that American shortcourse swimming is little-noticed elsewhere. Coverage on the site is Euro-centric for sure.)
The remaining 10% of the newer faces MAY or MAY NOT be because of the suits. Some clearly just trained harder and got better. Some may have a great reaction to the suits. However, to say that swimming is a joke because of the suits belittles and mocks the hard work that swimmers put in everyday.
I was subjected to the same nay-saying horsecrap back in the late 1980's with the underwater kicking on backstroke. "It's not swimming; It's dangerous; It's a mockery" were some of the words I heard. One FINA official flat said I was "cheating" by using the underwater kick. Again, fast change and an incomplete understaning of facts led to a reactionary result (10 meter limit and then 15 meters). What chicken little did not know then was that after practice was over every day, I stayed in the pool and did extra work. I worked for four years with trial and error to make that start happen. Mockery? I think not.
I also remember a coach in the early 90's saying that paying athletes to swim fast and setting incentives for fuinding would just make swimmers lazy. He was staunchly against funding post-grad athletes. His argument was that if you give 'em money, they will simply laze around. Bull. The opposite was true. USA Swimmers went crazy fast and we had the best Olympic team in years in 1992 and again in 1996.
Thanks Brett for standing up to the overreaction and continuous slaps in the face our your athletes.
Blastoff
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#339
Kirk Nelson   May 28, 2009 at 1:43pm
C said:
swimmers across the country work very hard for their times. When they see all their hours culminate in a time on the board at the end of the season, do the feel proud of the suits they wore? No, they feel proud of themselves and the effort they put in. And I’m sorry, but I will be damned before I see old geezers like yourself take that away from them because you are “entitled to your opinions.”
C, I think you're missing the point. Many people are worked up about the suits for precisely the reasons you've stated above: we want swimming to be about the athletes, not about the suits. Lately whenever a world record has been broken the first question asked is "what suit were they wearing?" I'm sure more people in the swimming community know what a Jaked suit is at this point than know who Rafael Munoz Perez is. I'd like the swimmers' accomplishments getting the glory, not their suits.
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#338
Josh Shell   May 27, 2009 at 5:52pm
who reads Swimnews anyways?
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#337
Well   May 27, 2009 at 5:24pm
you can say that Midwest Swim, and you are entitled to your opinion, but you do not seem to recognize that Craig Lord's column are NOT blogs. They are supposed to be articles, posted on a website and as well in a magazine -- "Swimnews" -- of which I am a subscriber.

Personally I'm looking for objective authors in the articles I read. When someone has a personal agenda, then "journalism" is not "journalism," it is something else...more like a blog.
People do talk all the time. You are right. You and I can talk about personal attacks, who are we but some dudes on a message board. Craig Lord has to regain his credibility as a journalist with me, and it would be really nice if he did because I love to read informed articles about swimming. But Craig's like the coach who has his favorites and picks on everybody else!
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#336
Midwest Swim   May 27, 2009 at 4:56pm
"discrediting the athlete and the coach while putting all of the swimmer's improvement on new suit technology."

Exactly. And Brett took that personally as critizing Fred's swimming AND his coaching. I read the article. People are going to talk all the time. You have to ignore it and move on, especially if it was just some guys blog. And no, I don't think Phill Jackson would spend his time defending Kobe's dunk, because he knows it won't affect Kobe anyway.
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#335
Coach   May 27, 2009 at 1:48pm
Really, Brett's issues are with Craig Lord discrediting the athlete and the coach while putting all of the swimmer's improvement on new suit technology. You think Craig Lord is the first person to hate on Brett? Read Craig's article before you get all annoyed with this particular blog. It's obvious when you read it that Craig is not being an objective journalist, but a hater. He uses his position as a "journalist" on the swimnews site to talk about whatever he wants in whatever light he wants to use. I've heard it said by more than one top journalist in the world, "yeah that's Craig's blogsite" in reference to the ridiculous website that he's on multiple times per week.

As far as how Brett spends his time -- he backs his guys. Do you think Phil Jackson wouldn't take issue with a reporter who thinks Kobe is a better dunker now that he has a new version of his "Kobe Shoe" ??
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#334
MidwestSwim   May 27, 2009 at 1:24pm
I stumbled upon this blog while browsing Floswimming. Wow. Shouldn't you be spending your time as the head coach of a national championship team and NOT freaking out the first time someone criticizes your coaching? You have stepped up to a new level of coaching and people are going to voice their opinions, good or bad and you will have to learn to deal with it. If you reply to every single negative comment with 6 paragraphs worth of defensive banter, then I worry for the men and woman that now depend on you. I don't think you would have caught David Marsh getting heated over this.
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#333
Anonymous Coward   May 26, 2009 at 8:48pm
Anonymous Coward said:
Brett Hawke FTW
i know who this is
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#332
Anonymous Coward   May 26, 2009 at 8:02pm
Brett Hawke FTW
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#331
And The Winner Is?   May 26, 2009 at 7:16pm
Anyone else notice that CL has gone back to reporting NEWS. I guess he got a slap on the fanny! HAHAHAHAHAHA
Hawke 1 CL 0.
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#330
L   May 24, 2009 at 2:21pm
Thank you Brett! It's great to see you backing your EXCELLENT athletes and as well as swimming! Keep up the great work!
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#329
David Lewis   May 24, 2009 at 2:04pm
C said:
"To claim that a suit is why someone went fast is absurd. Without any suits, the results would stay the same and people would finish in the same places."

I think this was exactly my point (level playing field) in my initial post (#312). So why is the point I made being used to rebut the point I made?

*********************
C also said:
"littering message boards across the internet with your negative propaganda."

Really? All across the internet? Wow. And what exactly was my negative propaganda? Seriously, please show me some quotes.

**********************
C further proclaimed:
"When they see all their hours culminate in a time on the board at the end of the season...they feel proud of themselves and the effort they put in. And I’m sorry, but I will be damned before I see old geezers like yourself take that away from them because you are 'entitled to your opinions'.”

Could you please point to the any place where I undermined the credit anyone was due, and, to the chain of reasoning between my opinion-holding and the alleged undermining of said credit? Didn't I explicitly say, "Why care if people are wearing faster suits now than they did in yesteryear?" Geez, do you guys read the posts you're about to attack?

Congrats to this year's graduating class at Notre Dame. I used to work at Arizona State, so also enjoyed controversy this year over the prez's commencement speeches.
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#328
David Lewis   May 24, 2009 at 1:42pm
"David" here. Now that i've got a floswimming account, you can see my username has changed. The only point I have to make is that whether i'm 15, 37 (actual age), 50, or 103 (god willing), I (and anyone like me, such Rojo, C, and Anon Coward) can have an opinion about whatever I want to have an opinion about. Last time I checked, I was in a more-or-less uncensored free country. My next post from North Korea may be a little less free-wheelin'.

I think that it is a false premise to say that one must be affected by the suits as an "entry requirement" to holding an opinion. And for the record, my first post on this issue conspicuously stated that I don't care, so why the hostility that I do care?

Anyway, let's for a moment accept the premise that one must be directly affected in a serious competitive capacity if one is allowed to have an opinion on the issue. I swim everyday. I compete in sanctioned events. I hate losing to the guy in the next lane as much as anyone else does. Don't the simple facts that I race in real races and hate to lose thus make me serious and opinion-worthy? Ah, but perhaps you argue that I don't compete at a sufficiently high caliber. But that line of reasoning introduces a slippery slope, because the same could be said about anyone not in the top 8 at the olympics. Do Rojo, C, or Anon Coward have legitimate shots at Olympic gold medals and world records? If not, then perhaps they have as little a right to an opinion as a masters swimmer. Ah, I can see the rebuttal. "Well, we might not be on the verge of world records, but we do have a legitimate shot at making finals at NCAAs or World Champs or US Nationals. But if we all race, and we're all equally non-world record holders, and we all care deeply about our own outcomes, then why is there a monopoly on the right to an opinion? Where is the line drawn?

So to C, who said to me, "Instead, old people like yourselves are the ones who are really "ruining the sport" by making a big deal about it," I didn't make a big deal, if you read my first post (#312). And, by coaching and caring and competing i'm certainly not ruining the sport. And to Rojo, who said "David, you just dont get it, do your homework and realise that the suits enhance certain body types more and others" (and had the graciousness to call me ignorant...guilty as charged), please show me a single change in sports rules or technology that wasn't more advantageous to a certain body type. Don't restrictions on tennis racquet length disproportionately affect people with shorter arms? Don't FIFA rules limiting soccer games to below a certain elevation hose people with more hemoglobin in their blood?

So yes, it seems like i'm making a big deal here, but not about the suits. I'm really just pointing out some serious flaws in the premise that there is a limit to who is allowed to care. And before you respond, make sure you have an argument based on logic (the real kind, you find in symbolic logic classes in math and philosophy departments). "you guys are freaking weird," is a particularly good counter-example to such an argument.
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#327
Suits=performance Enhancement   May 24, 2009 at 1:14pm
C said:
when did i attack obama. If anything i supported him with what i said. I'm not attacking old people but i am attacking those who involve themselves in matters that dont even affect them
you say you are attacking people who involve themselves in matters that dont affect them...but surely barrack obama is entirely unaffected and entirely irrelevant to this debate regardless of whatever parallels you may be able to draw between him and this suit debate? so why would you drag him into it? and to say someone that no longer swims competitively should keep their opinion to themselves is simply arrogant, narrow minded and really just a little bit embarrassing for you. im only 20 years old and still swim at an international level but i would gladly take advice from someone who has been through years of swimming experience and so can tell me a lot more about the progression of swimming through the years. im sure you're perfectly happy to take advice on stroke and training methods from your coach who is more than likely older than you, and yet when in comes to suits you seem to think that age will somehow count against them? your entire argument of "attacking those involve themselves in matters that dont even affect them" hints of someone who is massively selfish and really couldnt give a sh*t about anyone else and so cant understand that some people will want whats best for the sport, regardless of whether they are still competing.
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#326
Rojo   May 23, 2009 at 6:15pm
i just listed 3 areas you brought into your argument, it wasnt about attacking obama, it was the fact of using him (story about the protesters) to make a point about the suits and the people who are questioning them is weak.

there are plenty of athletes, coaches and parents who would just like some balance to be brought back into the sport by FINA, you must respect that
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#325
C   May 23, 2009 at 7:29am
when did i attack obama. If anything i supported him with what i said. I'm not attacking old people but i am attacking those who involve themselves in matters that dont even affect them
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#324
Rojo   May 22, 2009 at 7:07pm
C - you are just plain ignorant and the argument you make, attacking old people, obama and pretending the suits create an even playing field just shows your lack of perspective.

facts are facts, the suits aid performance for some more than others, that is not an even playing field.
as long as people want to ignore this fact the longer people who know this to be true will continue to speak out.
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#323
C   May 22, 2009 at 6:38pm
David, you may be old and still be entitled to your opinion, but anonymous coward is right. People who are no longer involved in the sport at a level where the suits actually make a difference are the ones who are making the biggest deal over the issue. No swimmer I know complains about the suits. Zero. Instead, old people like yourselves are the ones who are really "ruining the sport" by making a big deal about it. The attention you bring to the issue is deconstructing the fabric of what we do more than the suits do. To claim that a suit is why someone went fast is absurd. Without any suits, the results would stay the same and people would finish in the same places.
If you think I'm being absurd, then riddle me this. I go to Notre Dame and recently there was quite a bit of controversy over President Obama coming to speak at the commencement. For about two months there were protesters around campus, disrupting our daily life and essentially achieving nothing other than controversy. The school newspaper interviewed a radical who claimed he would make the commencement a "circus." That is exactly what you are doing to swimming by letting the issue of the suits linger. YOU are making it a circus. What is the difference between the protesters flying a plane around my campus with the picture of an aborted baby in protest and you littering message boards across the internet with your negative propaganda. The two issues may be very different and on the surface concerning issues of very different gravity, but in my opinion, there is no difference because both are trying to destroy things people have worked very hard for. The seniors this year worked very hard for their diplomas and likewise swimmers across the country work very hard for their times. When they see all their hours culminate in a time on the board at the end of the season, do the feel proud of the suits they wore? No, they feel proud of themselves and the effort they put in. And I’m sorry, but I will be damned before I see old geezers like yourself take that away from them because you are “entitled to your opinions.”
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#322
Rojo   May 22, 2009 at 6:00pm
David said:
I agree with this post. Why care if people are wearing faster suits now than they did in yesteryear? As long as everyone has access to the same array of equipment, it's a level playing field. (True, a Masters slob like me isn't going to buy a suit like that, but i'm not exactly in-it-to-win-it anymore, just trying not to get a fat a$$). Technology changes. You don't see cars from the '60s at Indy. You don't see wooden-framed racquets at Wimbledon. In the run-up to the Beijing games, I read one absurd newspaper column that said if Michael Phelps really wanted to be proven as great as Spitz, then he should perform without goggles...just like Spitz. That misses the point in the same way that this 'ban-fast-suits' argument misses the point. Phelps wasn't racing Spitz. He was racing his contemporaries, all of whom used the technology of the day. Spitz also raced his own contemporaries in the context of their technology. The same argument holds now. If everyone at the '09 World Champs has access to the same stuff, instead of the "old" stuff from the '07 Champs, then what's the big deal. If you advocate rolling back technology, then we should all just jump off an old wooden dock and race naked (maybe not a bad idea!).
David, you just dont get it, do your homework and realise that the suits enhance certain body types more and others not as much, these areas are:

1. Core stability
2. Tecnical Efficiency
3. Center of Gravity and how it relates to floatation
2 of the 3 areas can be trained and the 3rd is those blessed with great natural bouyancy in the right area allowing them to stay in the correct position.
the other 2 areas need training and discipline, and it is those athletes that do this best along with a good center of gravity that performed the best.
now you can change your center of gravity to allow better floatation, and also maintain better efficiency along with your core being held in by the suit with out doing any core work. THIS is not a level playing field when everyone has the same suit on, if you think it is you are ignorant.
back in the days of briefs it was the fittest, most talented athletes that performed the best, that is not the case now.
there fore the intergrity of the sport (anonymous coward) has gone:
"Integrity is consistency of actions, values, methods, measures, principles, expectations and outcome"
clearly the sport has lost this as there has been no consistency.
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#321
Anonymous Coward   May 22, 2009 at 4:29pm
haha i assure you then when im done with college i will not give 2 sh*ts what kind of swimsuit peope are wearing... and i think its hilarious that old people get on this site to complain about the suits and then get all upset when someone who it actually effects gets on and tells them that its none of their business
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#320
Anonymous Coward   May 22, 2009 at 2:12pm
David said:
Anonymous Coward, at exactly what age is a person no longer permitted an opinion? Make sure to hold yourself to that standard when the time rolls around. It'll come faster than you think.
AC just got OWNED by this old guy
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#319
Anonymous Coward   May 22, 2009 at 1:48pm
you guys are freaking weird.
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#318
Jack   May 22, 2009 at 1:15pm
I'm a little ashamed to call my self a "youngin" now... Sports don't have integrity!? WHO KNEW!?
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#317
Kirk Nelson   May 22, 2009 at 1:06pm
Anonymous Coward said:
ITS A SPORT, it doesnt have integrity!
Hard to argue with this mote of pure brilliance :)
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#316
David   May 22, 2009 at 12:57pm
Yeah...don't mess with us. I just went a 5:37 in a 400 free at workout today...from a push!!!
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#315
Old Turd   May 22, 2009 at 12:50pm
Anonymous Coward, Look at any of the videos of Masters nationals, it was LOADED with tech suits! Don't let a few of the "purists" sway your opinion of us old turds! We love them just as much as you youngins!
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#314
David   May 22, 2009 at 12:43pm
Anonymous Coward, at exactly what age is a person no longer permitted an opinion? Make sure to hold yourself to that standard when the time rolls around. It'll come faster than you think.
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#313
Anonymous Coward   May 22, 2009 at 12:37pm
why do all you old people care about the suits?the swimmers are the ones that should be worrying about it, and for the most part, we dont really care. we just want to race and go fast. I think its kind of pathetic that people sign on this site talking about "the integrity of the sport." ITS A SPORT, it doesnt have integrity! lets just put things in perspective and appreciate the fast swimming thats going on. if you are no longer a swimmer, or if you are a masters swimmer (not that i dont care about masters swimming, i think its awesome, but like david said, its not really about the competition) then you shouldnt have anything to say about the suit topic. its pathetic and embarrassing that all these old people think they can still have oppinions about a sport that they only do recreationally, if that. get over it and get a life, you big weirdos, its a freaking swim suit. go worry about the economy or your family or something.
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#312
HAHA!   May 22, 2009 at 12:28pm
Brilliant response David! ... that is referring to post #321
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#311
David   May 22, 2009 at 11:57am
I agree with this post. Why care if people are wearing faster suits now than they did in yesteryear? As long as everyone has access to the same array of equipment, it's a level playing field. (True, a Masters slob like me isn't going to buy a suit like that, but i'm not exactly in-it-to-win-it anymore, just trying not to get a fat a$$). Technology changes. You don't see cars from the '60s at Indy. You don't see wooden-framed racquets at Wimbledon. In the run-up to the Beijing games, I read one absurd newspaper column that said if Michael Phelps really wanted to be proven as great as Spitz, then he should perform without goggles...just like Spitz. That misses the point in the same way that this 'ban-fast-suits' argument misses the point. Phelps wasn't racing Spitz. He was racing his contemporaries, all of whom used the technology of the day. Spitz also raced his own contemporaries in the context of their technology. The same argument holds now. If everyone at the '09 World Champs has access to the same stuff, instead of the "old" stuff from the '07 Champs, then what's the big deal. If you advocate rolling back technology, then we should all just jump off an old wooden dock and race naked (maybe not a bad idea!).
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#310
No Official Announcement   May 22, 2009 at 11:51am
that is probably why they took the video down.

I actually feel bad for Paul. He got shafted when bob came back, and now he is out at NBAC.
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#309
Anonymous Coward   May 22, 2009 at 11:17am
Has there been an official announcement on Yetter to Auburn? I've seen the Swimmingworld article, but that credits a source close to the situation.

Good week for Garret to be at AU
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#308
Anonymous Coward   May 22, 2009 at 11:07am
i SAID dont talk about it.
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#307
Whoah   May 22, 2009 at 11:04am
...did you say that paul yetter is the new asst. at auburn?
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#306
Kirk Nelson   May 22, 2009 at 10:44am
Anonymous Coward said:
Just because guys like Fred and Alain Bernard went faster recently wearing new suits doesn't mean it is the suit. Couldn't they have improved and simply swam faster too? Just saying that people IMMEDIATELY jump to the conclusion: faster time=must have worn faster suit.
And I really think this was Craig Lord's original point months ago before he got a little wrapped around the axle. The problem with all these news suits is the suits take the glory from the swimmer. We can no longer compare performances to performances just a few years ago. And, maybe even worse, we can't compare all current performances because there may be significant differences between current suits. Swimming should be about who is the fastest swimmer, not who has the fastest suit.
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#305
Anonymous Coward   May 22, 2009 at 10:43am
uh oh we better not talk about it.
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#304
It Was New   May 22, 2009 at 10:34am
a video was posted early this morning consisting of brett strolling down the pool deck annoucing the hiring of yetter as the new assistant coach..but was mysteriously deleted between then and now..
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#303
Hawke And Yetter   May 22, 2009 at 10:22am
what video are you talking about...is it new?
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#302
Curious   May 22, 2009 at 10:18am
i'm wondering the same thing brahski
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#301
Tallswimmer   May 22, 2009 at 8:25am
Where'd the video of Hawke and Yetter go? I couldn't watch at home, and by the time I was at work it was gone!
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#300
Rojo   May 22, 2009 at 2:38am
it is not as clear as the best swimmer wearing the same suit wins, certain body types do not float or are not compressed as well as others and will benifit more from certain suits, make no mistake a fit athlete who floats well and has efficient technique can be beaten by a non floater who all of a sudden can float and hold their connection to the water under fatigue, where as previously they faded earlier in the race and are not in the finish.

these suits have changed the face of the sport and will change the development of athletes at an early age.
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#299
Yeah!!!   May 21, 2009 at 10:14pm
Auburn***
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#298
Yeah!!!   May 21, 2009 at 10:13pm
I agree! Give the guys some credit. Auburb swimmers are legit! Suit brings a little speed...but is it possible that they could just be getting faster at simply swimming? No...according to half of you that would be impossible. According to Craig Lord that's absolutely impossible. Craig Lord is just a British Journalist who's trying to get his name some attention. He has the mind of a child. Act your age and not your shoe size, Craig Lord.
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#297
Anonymous Coward   May 21, 2009 at 9:42pm
I like how it is just assumed all the sudden that the Jaked is a faster suit than the LZR. Maybe it is a slower suit? Maybe Fred could have gone even faster in a LZR? Just because guys like Fred and Alain Bernard went faster recently wearing new suits doesn't mean it is the suit. Couldn't they have improved and simply swam faster too? Just saying that people IMMEDIATELY jump to the conclusion: faster time=must have worn faster suit.
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#296
Jasper   May 21, 2009 at 8:08pm
I love BH
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#295
Anonymous Coward   May 21, 2009 at 6:39pm
The Jaked J01 was available at the olympics and was worn by several swimmers, no hurt credibility there.
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#294
Anonymous Coward   May 21, 2009 at 6:22pm
your completely missing the point here...if he cant do it an a pair of briefs then whatever suit he needed to do it in would obviously be making some sort of difference. even if it was a LZR, thats still a performance enhancing suit is it not? and thats the state we are in right now in swimming, that even a slower suit like the LZR would still be helping him to go under 21seconds. im not saying its all the suit, absolutely not. just that theres no denying that the suits do make a difference and therefore the times are not a proper reflection of what a swimmer can and cannot do.
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#293
Kirk Nelson   May 21, 2009 at 12:16pm
Gee, it sure was nice when we didn't have to worry about what kind of suit the guy in the next lane was wearing.
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#292
Anonymous Coward   May 21, 2009 at 12:00pm
This may be true - but a little overstated. If there is extra pressure on Fred to prove he can go under 21 in another suit - that fault lies with his coach. I believe it was Brett who said "I knew before we left for France that Fred was capable of breaking 21 seconds, regardless of the suit he chose to wear."

Another thing in his rant bothers me. When Brett said "The Jaked you hate so much was worn by several athletes at the Olympic games, yet none of them broke 21 seconds.", was he being truthful? Did the Jaked that Freddy broke 21 in exist last summer - or was that the old suit. If only the old suit was available last summer, Brett hurts his credibility with that.
Oh - and anyone who has worn a tech suit - or coached anyone who has can affirm that Freddy wouldn't have gone as fast without one.
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#291
Anonymous Coward   May 21, 2009 at 11:35am
nobody can afirm that Fred wouldn't have done those times...nobody!! Now everybody wants him to prove that he can do those times in a pair of briefs, not in a approved suit such as lzr...give me a freakin break!this is just not fair to him and to his coach. And all the attention and the pressure will be directed to him in Rome, not in a positive way, as a potential winner, but as a guy who has to prove that he can go under 21 again...
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#290
Anonymous Coward   May 21, 2009 at 10:22am
this entire argument is ridiculous. CL is right, Fred wouldnt have done those times without the help of that suit. however, it isnt Freds fault that in order to remain competitive he must wear a fast suit. i appluad CLs work in writing against the farcical suit issue, however it isnt the swimmers fault, they are the victims of all this. it is us, as swimmers, who have watched as our sport has become a joke, and sadly we have to wear these fast suits or else we may as well give up. CL is right, we need an end to the suit wars, however Fred should never have been brought into the debate, he is an irrelevant part of the whole thing. as for brett; no it is not all about the suit, but only an ignorant man would choose to entirely ignore the fact that the suits do make a difference. i think that both men are wrong and yet both are right. maybe they should stop arguing like a pair of 2year olds and actually listen to what the other one is saying....
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#289
Rob Robson   May 21, 2009 at 8:11am
Oh, but on the orignal topic - whatever your views on the suit, if Brett is saying "play the ball, not the man" then I fully agree with him.
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#288
Rob Robson   May 21, 2009 at 8:09am
To be honest, I don't really care what suits the top stars are wearing, or what technology they are using. As long as they are not doing themselves or others any harm, so what? Yes, there's always going to be some debate as to whether the current WR holder is really the best, but again, this is pretty trivial.

I'm most concerned about the developmental levels of the sport - particularly age group swimming where every finalist might not be given a suit to wear by their sponsor or, more realistically, bought one by their parents.
My concern is that technology - or money - will decide whether a kid gets pick up as talent, and provided the opportunity to develop further in, say, an elite/college programme. It isn't just about equity or fairness, but that if not having the latest technology becomes a barrier for youth swimmers, we might just end up wasting talent.
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#287
Casey Ryan   May 21, 2009 at 2:59am
way to go brett! i havent bothered to read many of craigs posts simply because of the reasons u stated in this article... would the swims be a little bit slower without the suits? ya they probably would but thte suits are here to stay so we have to deal with it. i sure as hell couldnt go that fast wearing a jaked! Good job to all of the swimmers out there doing amazing things.
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#286
Nic Liv   May 20, 2009 at 11:57pm
Well done Hawkey, good on you for sticking up for your athlete! And for doing it so articulately!
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#285
Chris Brammer   May 20, 2009 at 11:10pm
As much as I respect Craig Lord's work, I do not think addressing his critics in the manner that he does is good news writing. If he cares so much about all you "blockheads who scribble notes on the internet under a made-up name" then he find a better way to "speak to his audience" rather than eliminate that part of the market completely. The audience interested in swimming news is ever growing and changing and it has become evident that SwimNews have not addressed this completely.

While I agree with Craig on the suit issue to a certain extent, I do believe he is letting his frustrations on the matter get the best of him. To say that X would not have happened without Y may be entertaining to some, but is certainly no closer to the truth than what you or I blog about. However, bravo to swimnews, floswim, swimnetwork, and others for your enthusiastic coverage on this topic. And bravo to Brett and other coaches who stand behind their athletes when the cause of their performance is being questioned.
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#284
Anonymous Coward   May 20, 2009 at 10:41pm
interesting view said:
Well my point made...Craig Lord has never mentioned him once!
Has Craig Lord ever mentioned Barack Obama? How about Britney Spears? There is a very good chance that CL knows who they are.
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#283
Ouch   May 20, 2009 at 10:38pm
I'm so glad you believe in the absolute wisdom of the Lord himself - heaven forbid anyone else have an opinion - hats off to De Santis and flo swimming is veryyyy popular - you're here aren't you? B70 developed a good product - the Speedo LZR was being targeted as the suit to be banned and they did a bait and switch to the B70 so everyone would look the other way - I hope we all have our eyes wide open -No one seems to think it was suspicious when FINA adopted an extra rule at the last minute that was clearly meant to ban the B70 back in March?
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#282
John C. Adams   May 20, 2009 at 10:34pm
Craig Lord doesn't like tech suits, good for him, a lot of people don't and that is the main topic of most of his recent articles. However, in his article, he dropped Fred Bousquet's name a total of 17 times. Was he writing on the suits making swimming a laughingstock, or was he picking on a swimmer that supported them to make his point? From all the evidence, it seems like that latter.
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#281
Interesting View   May 20, 2009 at 10:25pm
Well my point made...Craig Lord has never mentioned him once!
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#280
Anonymous Coward   May 20, 2009 at 10:14pm
Mr. de santis said:
I'm sure a well respected journalist such as Craig Lord doesn't even
know you exist. So on that note don't flatter yourself. This matter
is extremely important to him and he is passionate about it and we
thank him!
I'm pretty sure Lord knows De Santis exists, as Chris is also a well respected journalist. Props to De Santis for making fun of CL, he had it comin'.
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#279
Mr. De Santis   May 20, 2009 at 9:58pm
I'm sure a well respected journalist such as Craig Lord doesn't even
know you exist. So on that note don't flatter yourself. This matter
is extremely important to him and he is passionate about it and we
thank him!
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#278
Lord   May 20, 2009 at 9:55pm
Hawke your the greatest
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#277
Chris DeSantis   May 20, 2009 at 8:01pm
Let me be clear about my stance on Craig as well: I am a long time admirer of his writing on Swimnews, going back to when I started going there over a decade ago. He has been a great resource for news and generally covers meets all around the world.

That said, do I think he's gone off his rocker on this topic a little and lost some credibility? Yes. Am I going to make fun of him in my blog because of it? Yes. Do I hope he takes it personal in anyway? No. If I met Craig I would tell him first how much I've admired his writing over the years and how some of the topics he has been relentless about have been so important: particularly drugs in the sport of swimming.
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#276
Scott Talbot   May 20, 2009 at 7:43pm
AMEN
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#275
Hey Hey   May 20, 2009 at 6:23pm
Think Craig Lord is amazing, don't go to his sight if you don't like him!!
Will get the latest news you won't, BYE BYE!!!!!
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#274
Hey Fatboy   May 20, 2009 at 5:39pm
doesn't look like many people agree with your idiotic views
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#273
Fatboy Duaine   May 20, 2009 at 5:26pm
I don't know if this blog is full of athletes who are in complete denial or just a load of cheating low lifes. The insults hurled at Craig Lord are beyond belief. Here is a man who clearly loves the sport with a passion who is being crucified by people who do not deserve to be called sportsmen. By all means contact The Times, but in order to tell them what a fine journalist that they have on their staff. The man deserves a knighthood and you defenders of artificial devices should be thoroughly ashamed.
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#272
Martin   May 20, 2009 at 5:22pm
Tech suits are unfair. Evenso if everyone wearing the same high tech suit. It leaves the best swimmer-suit combination to win, i.s.o. the best swimmer.

Ignorance is bliss. Seems to apply to many commenters here.
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#271
Touche'   May 20, 2009 at 3:27pm
Looks like Craig Lord has won the first round. Now it's up to
Bousquet to do it without the suit. Good luck to you I think
you will be a happy man not to have to live with speculation of
your performance.
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#270
Snood   May 20, 2009 at 2:01pm
Amen Brett
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#269
Anonymous Coward   May 20, 2009 at 11:48am
Comment 270, comment 269, comment 266... It is here, if you want it so bad go click on it. Garrett apparently has no problem with it being up here because he replied to a comment with the link in it and did not delete the comment or the link.
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#268
JPCA   May 20, 2009 at 11:38am
question said:
Did you really not post Craig Lords responce? Seems to me
here that this site is very bias to some people, I've noticed
some things especially Chris D. Iguess he is quite jealous of
Craig Lord. Wonder if Chris will leave this on? He deletes what he doesn't
like!
You didn't read Garrett's and De Santis' earlier comments, did you? Scroll down and read them, you will see that the FLO is not biased and that De Santis is not at all jealous of CL.
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#267
Shawn Klosterman   May 20, 2009 at 11:37am
everyone knows where to find Lord's response. I think floswimming has been very good about allowing people to post their opinions on both sides. Several people posted links to swimnews when the response was made there.
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#266
Question   May 20, 2009 at 11:33am
Did you really not post Craig Lords responce? Seems to me
here that this site is very bias to some people, I've noticed
some things especially Chris D. Iguess he is quite jealous of
Craig Lord. Wonder if Chris will leave this on? He deletes what he doesn't
like!
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#265
Gopherboy   May 20, 2009 at 10:51am
this is ridiculous, suits changed the face of swimming yes, but fred is an amazing athlete, he is huge, obviously he wont be able to go close enough to his record these suits do helo swimmers, but with most peoples reasoning is that suits make athletes incredible, which is false.. not anybody can just throw on a suit and become instantly amazing. Did u see how bretts swimmers did at NCAA's this year? the AU sprinters dominated and i was there also and wore a Jaked and yes i did a lifetime best but there is no way anybody could produce the results he got at NCAA's and also freds record without a great coach and very very hard training, so i agree people need to get over these suits, sports over the years have evolved and this is just swimming doing the same.
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#264
Believe What You Want   May 20, 2009 at 9:27am
Craig Lord is right:

Throw down the suits Brett and have your swimmers (Fred) swim without the suits. Prove him wrong. Period. See if Fred can get close to his "record" swim. Hell, give him the entire pool in a special time trial. Why wouldn't you do this? Prove the "haters" wrong.
I feel like Brett has become another college coach with great athletes who will try to win at any cost...
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#263
Kirk Nelson   May 20, 2009 at 9:15am
Pacific Swell said:
It's the TYR Sayonara, evidently so named due to fabrics originating in Japan.
You sure? I saw an ad for that suit, too, and thought it might be the mystery suit, but TYR says this suit is intended for triathlons, not pool swimming.
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#262
swimmd   May 20, 2009 at 7:43am
getyoursright said:
jaked wasn't approved...
NCAA =/= FINA
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#261
Chris DeSantis   May 20, 2009 at 7:33am
Garrett McCaffrey said:
Floswimming has posted both sides of the argument. Trent Staley's blog, "Tech Suits... Socialism in Swimming?": http://www.floswimming.org/blogs/blogger/tremstal/6834-tech-suits-socialism-in-swimming. Or what about Greg Winslow's argument in the interview, "Suit Talk, The Other Battle": http://www.floswimming.org/videos/coverage/view_video/234609-utah-visit/144541-suit-talk-the-other-battle
Or if you just scroll down this thread, I say on comment 52 that "Craig Lord's stance against the suits is respectable because we should be aware of what's changing in our sport and how its changing." My issue is with his attack on athletes.
Just Wondering, you're putting words and opinions in other people's mouths. Kind of like Craig Lord saying that Brett and Fred think they'd be just as fast without the suits. They openly admit that times are faster, but they said that the race was not WON by the suits. And I never said I was pro tech-suits, I am simply saying that it's not the athletes or the coaches fault for swimming fast.
Yes, I've also never stated that I was "pro" tech-suits. I have pointed out problems with the line of argument used by Lord et al. I'd be fine with people racing in briefs, but I'm also ready to move ahead with this ruling as well.
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#260
Zsolt Koszorus   May 20, 2009 at 5:23am
i think any wr, that was made in a non approved suit should go.

X-glide is not on the list, was never approved, so the wr will not stand, but the J01 is not on the list either, so why should that wr stay alive? i don't think that it was ever approved, it was only not forbidden....
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#259
Jack   May 20, 2009 at 2:25am
You da man Garrett

VVV
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#258
Garrett McCaffrey   May 20, 2009 at 1:24am
Just wondering... said:
Why won't floswimming post any arguments against the suits? I know Chris and Garret are pro tech-suits, but why not post Lord's reponse to Hawke in a headline?

Don't worry ill do it for you: http://www.bestswimming.com.br/blog/index.php?itemid=8012
Floswimming has posted both sides of the argument. Trent Staley's blog, "Tech Suits... Socialism in Swimming?": http://www.floswimming.org/blogs/blogger/tremstal/6834-tech-suits-socialism-in-swimming. Or what about Greg Winslow's argument in the interview, "Suit Talk, The Other Battle": http://www.floswimming.org/videos/coverage/view_video/234609-utah-visit/144541-suit-talk-the-other-battle
Or if you just scroll down this thread, I say on comment 52 that "Craig Lord's stance against the suits is respectable because we should be aware of what's changing in our sport and how its changing." My issue is with his attack on athletes.
Just Wondering, you're putting words and opinions in other people's mouths. Kind of like Craig Lord saying that Brett and Fred think they'd be just as fast without the suits. They openly admit that times are faster, but they said that the race was not WON by the suits. And I never said I was pro tech-suits, I am simply saying that it's not the athletes or the coaches fault for swimming fast.
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#257
Perfect   May 20, 2009 at 1:24am
Just wondering... said:
Why won't floswimming post any arguments against the suits? Why not post Lord's reponse to Hawke in a headline?

Don't worry ill do it for you: http://www.bestswimming.com.br/blog/index.php?itemid=8012
I love this. This is the perfect way for us to boycot Lord - post his response on a blog elsewhere so we do not go to the swimnews website. Can we do this all the time? I read what Lord had to say but they are arguing apples and oranges.

Best way to read Lord and not support him, NICE!!!
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#256
Pacific Swell   May 20, 2009 at 1:20am
Matt Salzberg said:
Does anyone wonder what in the world the speedo flying fish is? Also, what is the new TYR suit in development (the last TYR suit approved)?
It's the TYR Sayonara, evidently so named due to fabrics originating in Japan.
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#255
Not An AC   May 20, 2009 at 1:04am
Great Statement Brett,You the Man !
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#254
Just Wondering...   May 20, 2009 at 12:28am
Why won't floswimming post any arguments against the suits? I know Chris and Garret are pro tech-suits, but why not post Lord's reponse to Hawke in a headline?

Don't worry ill do it for you: http://www.bestswimming.com.br/blog/index.php?itemid=8012
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#253
Anonymous Coward   May 19, 2009 at 11:03pm
i like that brett is sticking up for his athletes, but its not possible to compare suits to basketball shoes. i know i have nothing to back it up except that the suit covers so much more and affects the athlete so much more than shoes do for a basketball player. otherwise, thank you brett and shutup lords.
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#252
Getyoursright   May 19, 2009 at 10:55pm
Shocked II said:
...but all those suits were approved, so it is comparable. obviously you'll have difference of opinion, but my point was this guy is crediting their NCAA win solely on the Jaked. come on man we all know that's not right to say. coach quick and his assistance don't deserve that sort of
jaked wasn't approved...
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#251
Jp   May 19, 2009 at 10:38pm
jj said:
everyone is mad about the b70 getting banned but i have always heard it is the most bouyant so it probably should be.. just a thought
amen brotha. word
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#250
Suits List   May 19, 2009 at 10:17pm
$$$$$$peedo
Thank you CL, I bet your bank account is bigger
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#249
Shocked II   May 19, 2009 at 9:39pm
well said:
Well... it's true. They wore the Jaked. No one else did. And no one can say the B70 or LZR was a comparable suit.
...but all those suits were approved, so it is comparable. obviously you'll have difference of opinion, but my point was this guy is crediting their NCAA win solely on the Jaked. come on man we all know that's not right to say. coach quick and his assistance don't deserve that sort of
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#248
David Rieder   May 19, 2009 at 6:53pm
From what I have heard, TYR Titan, B70, X-Glide, and Jaked (the one with all the records this year) are gone. I don't think they can take away the records set in the Titan, B70, or Jaked as they were legal AT THAT TIME. As for the X-Glide, it was never legal, so those records should be non-existant. If so, Sullivan gets back the 100 Free WR and Bousquet gets European record (47.15 in a then-legal Jaked faster than Bernard from BJ), and Valentina Artemyeva, who broke the World Record in the 50 Breast but finished 2nd to Efimova, is the WR-holder in that event.
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#247
Jj   May 19, 2009 at 6:03pm
everyone is mad about the b70 getting banned but i have always heard it is the most bouyant so it probably should be.. just a thought
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#246
Akos Fabian   May 19, 2009 at 5:51pm
Obviously Jaked has not had time to respond to the list and remove the "Approved by FINA", just as B70s website hasn't. These things usually take a couple of days to change on websites...
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#245
AZfswmfan   May 19, 2009 at 5:38pm
Time to prove what you say Hawke- no Jaked in Rome.
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#244
MultiPurpose   May 19, 2009 at 5:19pm
On the Jaked website...Under products there is only the JAKED J01 and at the bottom right hand corner is says "Approved by fina". That is a little bit confusing to me. Why would it say that?
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#243
Hells Yea   May 19, 2009 at 4:56pm
well now that his suit is banned bousquet can show that he still is faster than everyone else without it, but it was def wrong of craig to call out a particular athlete
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#242
Anonymous Coward   May 19, 2009 at 4:52pm
get in touch with craig lord;
Phone: 0207-782-5000
E-Mail:
as a journalist I am sure he'd love to hear directly how people feel about his comments...
i am just as certain that the newspaper he writes for would love to hear how people truly feel about the rhetoric he spews.
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#241
Todd Kramer   May 19, 2009 at 3:46pm
I think the issue on allowing or disallowing records is a bit cloudy. As I understand it, the B70 was once on the approved list. That means that all swims in that suit while it was on the approved list cannot be taken away. However, I don't think the Jaked suit was ever on the approved list. Therefore the records swam in that suit absolutely can be taken away while allowing swims in the B70 to stand. I'm not saying that's what's going to happen, but if it does there are legitimate reasons for allowing some records to stand but not others.
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#240
Akos Fabian   May 19, 2009 at 3:06pm
Well lets be fair, when they bought the suits they were not illegal and although people were wondering, how the suits made people fast there was no direct indication that they were going to become illegal someday. This of course is only true for the B70s.
On the other hand, since the beginning of the year it was clear that 100% PU suits would be banned, so the Jaked isn't really a surprise..
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#239
Bryan   May 19, 2009 at 3:04pm
Momizzle said:
So if you are going to take away fred's and bernard's record, then you have to take away every other record broken with a B70... take Nathan Adrian's NCAA records,
no the NCAA doesn't have to follow FINAs guideline They can approve or deny any suit they want, and as of now the B70, Jaked, TYR Titan etc. are all still legal in the NCAA. Don't know about Arena, but no one wore them at NCAAs so maybe they already were banned. My point being that Adrians records are safe for now
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#238
NCAA   May 19, 2009 at 3:03pm
Pretty sure Nathan Adrian wore TYR, which is approved.
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#237
Kirk Nelson   May 19, 2009 at 3:03pm
Tristan Vowles said:
I'm pretty sure FINA words it like that so that ignorant people like you can understand what they are trying to say.
I guess I am ignorant because they sound like weasel words to me. In my ignorance I'd like FINA to acknowledge what exactly makes the blue seventy suit trap more air than some of the other suits that made the cut.

I'm all for rules regarding suits if these rules can be tested for. Anything else is arbitrary.
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#236
Matt Salzberg   May 19, 2009 at 2:55pm
Does anyone wonder what in the world the speedo flying fish is? Also, what is the new TYR suit in development (the last TYR suit approved)?
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#235
Tristan Vowles   May 19, 2009 at 2:51pm
Akos Fabian said:
It didn't take long for conspiracy theories to show up...
Out of 348 suits only 10 were outright rejected, 202 were approved and 136 have to be modified. They must have spent a lot of time trying to think up a set of rules to specifically ax Jakeds, Blue70s and the new Arena... They maybe spent time tinkering with the rules to make sure Speedo makes it, but it does mean something that these suits couldn't even pass the requirements that allow the LZR (or at least some version of it).
It sucks when your expensive competition suit is all of a sudden not legal anymore, but lets not forget that these suits were giving an unjust performance enhancement.
agreed.. complaining about owning an illegal suit is kind of along the same lines as complaining about having bought steroids, and not being able to use them
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#234
Tristan Vowles   May 19, 2009 at 2:49pm
Momizzle said:
So if you are going to take away fred's and bernard's record, then you have to take away every other record broken with a B70, I think a couple by Van der Burgh, Randal Ball's SCM world records, take Nathan Adrian's NCAA records, what are the swimming organisations going to do? It would be unfair to pick and choose which ones to take away. If you are taking a world record away, then you should take away every accomplishment made by any individual wearing that suit.

I think the records should stand, and enforce the ruling starting today. It would be way too hard to handle otherwise.
unfortunately, I think you're right.. taking away the record performances would require also taking away every performance done in that suit. Needless to say, that would be impossible. I think we may have to let the ridiculous standards set in these suits remain.
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#233
Akos Fabian   May 19, 2009 at 2:47pm
It didn't take long for conspiracy theories to show up...
Out of 348 suits only 10 were outright rejected, 202 were approved and 136 have to be modified. They must have spent a lot of time trying to think up a set of rules to specifically ax Jakeds, Blue70s and the new Arena... They maybe spent time tinkering with the rules to make sure Speedo makes it, but it does mean something that these suits couldn't even pass the requirements that allow the LZR (or at least some version of it).
It sucks when your expensive competition suit is all of a sudden not legal anymore, but lets not forget that these suits were giving an unjust performance enhancement.
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#232
Tristan Vowles   May 19, 2009 at 2:45pm
furious said:
i'm really ticked at the b70 ban. anyone else have a really nice $400 practice suit now?

personally, i am done buying speedo prodcuts. this list is too convenient to be fair. sickening.
Of course you are angry. You own one.
I don't have any sympathy for you.. surely when you bought the suit you knew it was questionable whether it would be banned or not? Buyer beware..
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#231
Tristan Vowles   May 19, 2009 at 2:37pm
Kirk Nelson said:
Well, apparently the blue seventy failed the very scientific "might trap air" test. Sounds to me like it passed the measurable things so they made up a new criterion on the fly to make sure it failed.
I'm pretty sure FINA words it like that so that ignorant people like you can understand what they are trying to say. If a suit traps air, it floats better because air is less dense than water (who knew?).

As for the LZR, I think, for now, suits have only been tested for buoyancy and thickness. The LZR's claim to fame is impermeability and core compression, which, I think, have not yet been tested. This is why it remains on the list, at least for now. Obviously, more suits will get the axe come 2010.
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#230
Momizzle   May 19, 2009 at 2:37pm
So if you are going to take away fred's and bernard's record, then you have to take away every other record broken with a B70, I think a couple by Van der Burgh, Randal Ball's SCM world records, take Nathan Adrian's NCAA records, what are the swimming organisations going to do? It would be unfair to pick and choose which ones to take away. If you are taking a world record away, then you should take away every accomplishment made by any individual wearing that suit.

I think the records should stand, and enforce the ruling starting today. It would be way too hard to handle otherwise.
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#229
Well   May 19, 2009 at 2:35pm
shocked said:
This was the last paragragh in Craig Lord's response to coach hawkes blog. if i'm reading this right he's basically saying that 18 guys won that meet not because they worked hard, not because they we're full of emotion, but because they wore the suits. I AM DISGUSTED
Well... it's true. They wore the Jaked. No one else did. And no one can say the B70 or LZR was a comparable suit.
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#228
Rafael   May 19, 2009 at 2:25pm
Speedo Money Wins
Blue70, Arena, Tyr, Jaked and the swimming loses..
If it were to ban.. LZT should be on the list also.
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#227
Shocked   May 19, 2009 at 2:24pm
This was the last paragragh in Craig Lord's response to coach hawkes blog. if i'm reading this right he's basically saying that 18 guys won that meet not because they worked hard, not because they we're full of emotion, but because they wore the suits. I AM DISGUSTED

"P.S. Which is why your NCAA boys wore it too, and stole a march on rivals. You ought not to have drawn Mr Quick into your comments, Mr Hawke, but he is a coach who can lay claim to many victories fair and square down the years. College forums, it seems to me, are thick with the cry of "foul", and while you will undoubtedly have a great group of college swimmers there, most of whom work very hard, etc., etc., there is a widely held view that you won because you wore something the others did not. Whether those rival teams are right or not, is that the basis on which you wish to be seen as a successful coach? I would hope not"
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#226
Anonymous Coward   May 19, 2009 at 2:22pm
so what happens to the world records.
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#225
Kirk Nelson   May 19, 2009 at 2:22pm
Well, apparently the blue seventy failed the very scientific "might trap air" test. Sounds to me like it passed the measurable things so they made up a new criterion on the fly to make sure it failed.
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#224
Furious   May 19, 2009 at 2:21pm
i'm really ticked at the b70 ban. anyone else have a really nice $400 practice suit now?

personally, i am done buying speedo prodcuts. this list is too convenient to be fair. sickening.
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#223
Jack   May 19, 2009 at 2:17pm
People follow the money. Speedo = money for FINA
LZR will be around a long time, fair or not
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#222
Anonymous Coward   May 19, 2009 at 2:16pm
NO FS2!!! WTF!!!!
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#221
Tom Price   May 19, 2009 at 2:15pm
my pics of non floating b70 neros can go to?
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#220
swimmd   May 19, 2009 at 2:12pm
Matt Strmec said:
Agreed! I feel that FINA should hire its own team to design ONE suit to be worn in all sanctioned meets.
and ruin the spirit of competitive capitalism as it infiltrates the sport?? *gasp* not in the US of A!
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#219
Tom Price   May 19, 2009 at 2:11pm
BTW,Craig is recieving money fro ARENA
His wife was part of GDR swimming
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#218
Tristan Vowles   May 19, 2009 at 2:06pm
It is unlikely that Bousquet and Bernard's records will stand, as they have not yet been ratified. Same goes for Ryosuke's 200 back, and Yulia Efimova's 50 breast, and Rafa Munoz' 50 fly. It has not, however, been confirmed.
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#217
Joec   May 19, 2009 at 2:00pm
Jerry Adams said:
Don't forget - The suit should only be available through your local Speedo dealer.
I don't understand what you mean.

If you are saying that Speedo would be the only supplier of briefs, I have no idea why you would think that. First, you can go to Academy, Target, or Walmart, and you can buy briefs there from various brands including Speedo. Second, there isn't any good reason Speedo would own the entire market for briefs. They don't dominate the market sufficiently to attain that kind of monopoly.
Maybe I misinterpreted your comment.
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#216
Joec   May 19, 2009 at 1:55pm
Matt Strmec said:
I'm not sure that the two frenchmens' records (as well as the others set in the "illegal" suits) will be taken down because they did these times before there were any rulings deeming their suits illegal. FINA would not come off well to void these records because the athletes were violating no rules in wearing these suits when there was nothing saying they were illegal.
is it illegal to race in a suit not approved by FINA?
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#215
Joec   May 19, 2009 at 1:53pm
breathefire said:
I agree with Craig. Technology has no place in sports, and certainly has never been a part of swimming.

Let's go back to Weissmuller: heads up, faces dry, hips down, no goggles, no caps, and cotton wrestling tunics from shoulders to knees.
They dug a hole in the middle of the Olympic track in the 1920s and swimming events were held in the resulting mud pond. so let's get rid of lane lines while we are at it.
I get your sarcasm.

I think technology has a place in sports, but not when it comes to aiding performance. Those stupid suits they wore back in the 1920s made swimmers slower than if they were naked, while the suits of today's market proudly advertise that the skin of the suit is faster than human skin.
The suit should pretty much be as basic as possible, making the swims as human as possible. Minimizing the size of the suit while still maintaining modesty should be the goal for a non-technology based version of swimming.
The record-breaking should be relied wholly upon the swimmer's improved performance, not the improved circumstances the swimmer was in. I'm saying that a swimming in a racing suit is substantially different than just a brief, and the brief is the most available, most affordable, most abundant, and will be around the longest. The brief will still be around even when the suits of today are outdated.
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#214
Anonymous Coward   May 19, 2009 at 1:47pm
They did not axe the LAZR.

The notable suits that were not approved are the Jaked 01, The Arena X Glide, and the TYR Titan
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#213
Matt Strmec   May 19, 2009 at 1:45pm
Jerry Adams said:
And I wish people would get off their high horses. Just because the B70, Jaked JO1 and Arena X Glide were not approved, and the LZR was, doesn't mean the LZR is any less performance-enhancing. It just means that our decisions are being made by Speedo's wallet.
Agreed! I feel that FINA should hire its own team to design ONE suit to be worn in all sanctioned meets. That would eliminate the entire conundrum. Look at auto racing...F1, NASCAR, Indy...they all use the same car. It would also eliminate any speculation about FINA working for speedo (which I definitely don't disagree with).
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#212
Anonymous Coward   May 19, 2009 at 1:42pm
Jerry Adams said:
What can we do now - other than buy a LZR every few swims? Just because a Rocket Science suit - or a Jaked JO3 or any others on the approved list - are approved for now, there will be a FINA Congress at Worlds where they very well may whittle the list down again for approval beginning Jan 1, 2010. The only suit practically guaranteed to make that list is Speedo's.

And I wish people would get off their high horses. Just because the B70, Jaked JO1 and Arena X Glide were not approved, and the LZR was, doesn't mean the LZR is any less performance-enhancing. It just means that our decisions are being made by Speedo's wallet.
I completely agree - while I am still happy the axed the B70, they should also have axed the LZR. It's all about how much money Speedo contributes to the sport, and how many athletes are sponsored by them, and whatnot.

What can we do now, you ask: protest. I say swim naked at World Trials to protest the legality of the LZR.
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#211
Jerry Adams   May 19, 2009 at 1:39pm
Samuli Hirsi said:
BTW, can something that is ruled after being used not being according to rules be "illegal"?

I know it's semantics but it seems "pure swimming gang" is very hard trying to make it look that those Jakked swimmers did something wrong, which is not the case. They played by the rules to the point, so they did nothing illegal...
While I agree they dd nothing illegal. I think the records can be disallowed. On the FINA World record form, you must post which suit was worn. A world record can only be broken in a FINA - approved suit. The B70 and others that have since been axed, were previously FINA-approved. The X-Glide, and I assume the Jaked J03 were never approved in the first place. For that reason, FINA has a real leg to stand on if the records are not Ok'ed.
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#210
Samuli Hirsi   May 19, 2009 at 1:31pm
BTW, can something that is ruled after being used not being according to rules be "illegal"?

I know it's semantics but it seems "pure swimming gang" is very hard trying to make it look that those Jakked swimmers did something wrong, which is not the case. They played by the rules to the point, so they did nothing illegal...
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#209
Matt Strmec   May 19, 2009 at 1:31pm
I'm not sure that the two frenchmens' records (as well as the others set in the "illegal" suits) will be taken down because they did these times before there were any rulings deeming their suits illegal. FINA would not come off well to void these records because the athletes were violating no rules in wearing these suits when there was nothing saying they were illegal.
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#208
Sug   May 19, 2009 at 1:29pm
Craig's rebuttal against the above arguement, while superfluous, is compelling.

I'm also glad to see FINA axing the B70.
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#207
swimmd   May 19, 2009 at 1:18pm
And now that i'm officially failing medical school as a *direct* result of following this blog, you'll have to excuse me. :-p
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#206
Anonymous Coward   May 19, 2009 at 1:16pm
Jerry Adams said:
FIrst off - I am so angry that FINA/Speedo took B70 out of the game. Forget the World champs, etc - it was really the only affordable option for younger athletes - Jr Nats, etc. I guess swimming has come far enough as a sport to be bought by one swim-suit manufacturer. It is so short-sighted. B70 could have become the next Speedo.
I'm glad they axed the B70 - it was like wearing a full body, hydrodynamic pull buoy. Yes, it was inexpensive, yes, it was durable, but no, it shouldn't have been legal. Never fear, B70 fans, they will make adjustments to the suit, make it legal, and hopefully make it as durable, and put another suit, this time a legal one, on the market.
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#205
swimmd   May 19, 2009 at 1:13pm
lablom said:
Sorry, but it seems like most people here own Mr. Lord an apology: the Jaked 01, the suit used by Bousquet--as well as the floating wetsuit Blue Seventy--have been deemed ILLEGAL and performance enhancing by the independant inquiry in Lausaune.

And what about the countless other swimmers who have swum with a blueseventy or other banned suit with less fanfare? I seem to remember (correct me if i'm wrong) Gil wearing a blue seventy at OTs and making the team...and i'm sure there are others...should we say they aren't olympians any longer?

You cannot seriously blame one single swimmer, group of swimmers or their coach for doing what AT THE TIME was not illegal and let them swim as fast as they could.
Now that the suits are illegal, we'll see. I wouldn't be surprised if Fred pulls another 20.9 in the J03 or whatever suit he chooses to wear but that's besides the point.
Point is, let the individuals be. I really don't understand faulting a COMPETITIVE athlete for trying to gain a legal advantage. Now that it's illegal, nobody will be in them.
Finally, since when do we have to make everything "fair"? Some people are whining about the suits affecting body types differently on here. Yes, people's bodies are different. Being tall and skinny isn't something you have to work for and it conveys an advantage for some people, should we institute height/weight classes into the sport? Didn't think so.
Thank God they've made a decision. I doubt it will stop the b*tching but I guess when Bousquet or Bernard or any of the other top names fail to break :30 in their next meet, we'll know it was all because of the suit. Let the games begin.
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#204
Anonymous Coward   May 19, 2009 at 1:11pm
djQ said:
So what suits can we NOT wear at JEI?? I was planning on wearing a B70 and or LZR.

What the hell is a LZR Pro?
I'm from SoCal, and I know that at CIF last week, there were B70s all over the place. Should be interesting.
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#203
Lablom   May 19, 2009 at 12:44pm
Momizzle said:
So according to the swiminfo article: http://www.swimmingworldmagazine.com/lane9/news/21182.asp?q=FINAPostsFinalApprovedSwimwearListfor2009

The Jaked suit is approved, so Craig Lord can eat his words and apoligize to Fred. What a b**ch that guy is. He probably never won anything and is jealous of the athletes of today.
Sorry, but it seems like most people here own Mr. Lord an apology: the Jaked 01, the suit used by Bousquet--as well as the floating wetsuit Blue Seventy--have been deemed ILLEGAL and performance enhancing by the independant inquiry in Lausaune.

This sets the record strait in my mind; Bousquet and Bernard's enhanced world records were just that and will certainly not be ratified by FINA. While I agree with and support Mr. Hawke's passion for his coaching and his swimmers, this unfortunately is a momentous setback: Bousquet will have to now prove his talents and speed without this ILLEGAL performance enhancer.
End of story.
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#202
DjQ   May 19, 2009 at 12:37pm
So what suits can we NOT wear at JEI?? I was planning on wearing a B70 and or LZR.

What the hell is a LZR Pro?
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#201
Momizzle   May 19, 2009 at 12:28pm
So according to the swiminfo article: http://www.swimmingworldmagazine.com/lane9/news/21182.asp?q=FINAPostsFinalApprovedSwimwearListfor2009

The Jaked suit is approved, so Craig Lord can eat his words and apoligize to Fred. What a b**ch that guy is. He probably never won anything and is jealous of the athletes of today.
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#200
C Andrews   May 19, 2009 at 12:22pm
I'm sick of Craig Lord. Glad others feel the same way.
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#199
Loader   May 19, 2009 at 12:22pm
when does the ban of the b70 and others start?
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#198
Annoyed.   May 19, 2009 at 12:21pm
Looks like Speedo got their way....the rule re air trapping is not scientifically proven and there are suits on the list made of the same materials and copies of the blueseventy and TYR suits.
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#197
DHealy   May 19, 2009 at 12:14pm
HELL YEA HAWKE!
CRAIG LORD SUCKS, He's let the suit debate take over his website. Plus most of his posts are just plain rude, especially the one he posted in response to this. We need a new swim news site that isnt so one sided. Go Bousquet and Go Brett Hawke. FU Craig.
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#196
Anonymous Coward   May 19, 2009 at 12:14pm
looking at the approve suits I have a few question...
like what is the Jaked 03?
and what is the Speedo Flying Fish?
are these both new models that will be available for the summer?
Is FINA taking a step in the wrong direction, if they allow suits that may not be commercially available?
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#195
David Rieder   May 19, 2009 at 12:12pm
I believe the Jaked 01 (Fred's and Munoz's WRs), Arena X-Glide (Bernard and Efimova), TYR Titan, and Blueseventy are gone.
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#194
THE ARENA HYBRID   May 19, 2009 at 11:56am
As I understand it the suit that Irie wore made it, what about
the one Bernard wore. Peirsol was wearing the grey hibrid in
Charlotte.
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#193
Billy Bob   May 19, 2009 at 11:51am
My favorite sentence written by Craig Lord in that article:

"Three weeks after setting a ludicrous world record of 20.94 in a Jaked by axing an indecent amount off the best time he had previously shown himself capable of in almost 10 years of a senior career in which seven of those years had him swimming in a 1sec margin (now he is 1sec, on one length, faster than that average down the years), Bousquet won the 50m at the Charlotte meet in 21.33, now equal to his fifth-best effort ever."
What a wordsmith!
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#192
Akos Fabian   May 19, 2009 at 11:34am
Well now we have proof, that not all suits do the same things...
Let the massacre begin :)
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#191
Akos Fabian   May 19, 2009 at 11:28am
There seems to be a common misconception that if the suits are available to everyone it's a level playing field. Three main effects have been contributed to the suits:

Reduction of drag: If you reduce drag this effects everyone the same, since the resistance towards movement is reduced by the same amount for everyone, so you are benefiting exactly the same as anyone who wears the suit. This is why people haven't bothered to attack pre-2008 suits, because they supposedly only reduce drag.
Compression: Compression reduces muscle fatigue, which should be an equal effect for everyone and also reduces drag by limiting skin movements. However it also changes body shape of swimmers and obviously someone how is already lean and in shape is not going to gain anything from this, whereas more corpulent swimmers will benefit. So compression is going to help certain physiques more than others.
Buoyancy: If the suits add buoyancy, then this is going to be creating the biggest differences in individual gains. Anyone already riding high in the water is not going to be helped much. If you tend to sink, then you are really going to see some improvements.
I'm not saying the suits will help people get past the best swimmers out there, but the performance gains are not going to be the same, even if everyone has access to them. You decide if that's fair or not...
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#190
B-Thom   May 19, 2009 at 11:23am
All corperations do this. NCAA banned several flavors of Vitamin water for the sole reason that they have a huge contract with Gatorade and Gatorade put pressure on the NCAA to act. Its the same thing
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#189
Kirk Nelson   May 19, 2009 at 11:22am
Fina waited too long, but I do think having very specific and lab measureable tests in order to approve any suit is the way to go. I do have a problem with the fact that some of the new rules seem to be tailored to allow the LZR to pass, but at least now we have a benchmark.
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#188
Alexander Hagenes   May 19, 2009 at 11:19am
well i don't think it is the lzr we know..
LZR Racer Pro
i have never seen the pro there before...
Maybe it is Speedos new suit..
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#187
Anonymous Coward   May 19, 2009 at 11:13am
JPCA - you contradict yourself.

"granted, the b70 floats more" ... and that is why its banned now.
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#186
JPCA   May 19, 2009 at 11:10am
Yeah, FINA is going to completely cater to Speedo and keep the LZR legal with whatever new laws they put into effect next year. Ridiculous, but it's all about money. Also, the B70 and the LZR both float, granted, the b70 floats more, but the LZR changes your body position (read: cheats).
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#185
Rafael Teixeira   May 19, 2009 at 11:09am
immeadiatelly, with 30 days to submit a new version for aprovall.

But sadly for Craig.. still non us-swimmers will continue be the ones to be beaten on 50 and 100 free...
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#184
Todd Kramer   May 19, 2009 at 11:06am
When do the 'bans' on certain suits go into affect? Are they banned immediately, or is there a 'phase-out' period?
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#183
UFC   May 19, 2009 at 11:04am
I want to see C.Lord x B.Hawke
or CL x F. Biscuits

Ultimate fight NOW!!!!
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#182
Kirk Nelson   May 19, 2009 at 11:02am
Possibly true, but if that's the case FINA should never have approved the Blue Seventy in the first place! This after the fact attempt to put the genie back in the bottle is B.S.
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#181
Anonymous Coward   May 19, 2009 at 10:59am
I dont really agree Kirk. The blueseventy is quite literally a flotation device, while the LZR is more geared as a compression suit.
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#180
Kirk Nelson   May 19, 2009 at 10:57am
Is anyone the least bit surprised the LZR made the list, but the blue seventy did not? I guess Speedo couldn't sell enough LZRs on the suit's own merit, so they needed Fina to get involved to ban its biggest competitor. Shameful.
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#179
Anonymous Coward   May 19, 2009 at 10:55am
But Irie used an arena/swim japan hybrid x-glide for his 200bk record...

I guess its no longer valid then?
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#178
Andy Faz   May 19, 2009 at 10:50am
Well put Brett, CL has been boring the of me and every other swimmer on the planet for the last year and a half. swimnews.com should be renamed craiglord.blogspot.com.

I'm all for regulating suits, as are most swimmers, but selective bashing by CL of certain swimmers is not objective.
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#177
Rafael Teixeira   May 19, 2009 at 10:49am
List has Appeared.
Jaked J001 banned. but the lighter J003 version passed.
All Blueseventy out
All Arena except X-Glide passed.
All descent ( that Irie Ryousuke used ) passed
and Speedo ok.
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#176
John Bradley   May 19, 2009 at 10:47am
#175
Rafael Teixeira   May 19, 2009 at 10:44am
Well I am hoping to see soon a Cielo (Arena X-Glide or Jaked ir Arena don´t pass ) Versus Bousquet.
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#174
Nelson   May 19, 2009 at 10:43am
Wow! ccricky crumba wicky wumba my xerxes.
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#173
Nick   May 19, 2009 at 10:38am
I don't think that Brett is denying that the suit helps - which is what Craig Lord seems to think judging from his reply. He is simply saying that the playing field is even - you, me, and your mother can get this suit and race in it and at the end of the day, Fred is the fastest.

The notion that Fred show up in briefs or an old suit is ludicrous, he is wearing what EVERYONE ELSE is wearing and BEATING them. It is Craig Lord that is "misguided". He completely dodged the fact that EVERYONE has access to these suits and Fred is STILL beating them.
POINT: If everyone was in a brief right now, Fred would still probably be the fastest man on the planet in 50m.
Everyone can see you're dodging Mr. Lord - its plain as daylight
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#172
Craig Lord   May 19, 2009 at 10:34am
Brett, you're totally right. I take back everything I've said. I'm sorry.
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#171
Anonymous Coward   May 19, 2009 at 10:23am
Thank you Brett for finally being the first high profile person to say what almost everyone who reads SwimNews has been thinking over the last year! Before his suit obsession CL was one of the best swimming reporters around in my opinion, but swim news has lost its objectivity.

I only hope the owners of SwimNews see this blog and realise what Craig has done - I believe CL is paid for every post he writes for them so they need to realise theyre wasting theyre money! Bring back the old CL on the old SwimNews with its balanced and up to date reporting! I miss it!
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#170
STM   May 19, 2009 at 9:56am
I totally agree with Brett on this one.

I noticed an evident trend of bias toward international swimmers on swimnews.com (especially those wearing suits). That’s absolutely ridiculous, why in God’s name would the theme of a SUIT be the main topic of articles addressing remarkable performances.
Obviously the Jaked suit helped Freddy get under 21, but it wasn't an unfair advantage. Athletes around the world have purchased this suit, but nobody has yet had the ability to go under 21.
Furthermore the biggest problem I have with the attacks on Freddy, is the fact that he is NOT getting paid to swim in a suit. He is one of the top swimmers in the world and he doesn’t own any endorsements and suit contracts. He is competing for the true love for the sport, why in the world would you attack a guy who is representing himself for himself.
Craig Lord took it way too far, and Brett did the right thing by defending his swimmer.
Keep on Rockin Brett!!!
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#169
Anonymous Coward   May 19, 2009 at 8:53am
If Craig Lord was happy any swimmer who sees any success while wearing these suits should credit it all to the bathing suit. Craig why don't you address issues of swimmers in the past, such as when Popovs coach was arrested and during the search of his house they found a safe with HGH sitting in it right beside the Olympic Gold medal... hmm never really hear that story do you? I am embarrassed for you, clearly the responses on this board show that you are out of touch with your readers, and your articles show that you are out of touch with reality. Please go seek medical attention, reading your articles make me worried about your mental health...
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#168
Joeri Beetz   May 19, 2009 at 8:44am
for all the suit lovers:
if it's ok to wear a device that helps you float higher in te water,
if it's ok to wear a device that reduces drag by compressing body fat and muscles,
if it's ok to wear a device that delays the onset of fatigue by compressing muscle tissue,
then why don't we allow swimmers to wear fins and paddles?

and of course Bousquet has done an incredible amount of hard and smart work. and most probably he would also be the fastest man on earth if we all returned to the use of briefs. but I don't think that's the real issue here.
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#167
swimmd   May 19, 2009 at 8:13am
I hear your point, pacificswell, but there are always multiple factors affecting what "makes" a swimmer. Until we can isolate each factor (never) and study it, we can't know who benefits and who does not from these suits.
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#166
PacificSwell   May 19, 2009 at 7:59am
swimmd wrote: "It's nonsensical to imply that it won't be an "even playing field" simply because the suits exist, when anyone in Rome as an athlete will have access to them."

This is wishful thinking. It isn't simply because the suits exist. When suits manipulate body position they are not going to assist all swimmers equitably. Some swimmers have the natural talent and technique to ride higher in the water. They will benefit less.
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#165
Rob Legend   May 19, 2009 at 7:59am
40 years ago they weren't allowed to wear goggles or caps..

Lets go down that road again?
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#164
Naked   May 19, 2009 at 7:56am
Interestingly, the majority of comments are in favor of Bretts article and the point it makes. Funny that a completely different picture is often portrayed on SwimNews...
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#163
The Screaming Viking !   May 19, 2009 at 7:42am
Scott Ehrmann said:
If the blog-off were to take place, I'm pretty sure Brett just won
BLOG FIGHT!!!
http://swimviking.blogspot.com/2009/05/blog-fight.html
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#162
Chris DeSantis   May 19, 2009 at 7:19am
Scott Ehrmann said:
Just out of curiosity, how does the activity of this blog compare with popular blogs past? This is definitely the most talked about topic I've seen on this site in a while.

Garrett? Chris?
The only thing I've written with more comments was about Phelps after the bong scandal. And this will pass that soon.
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#161
swimmd   May 19, 2009 at 6:47am
Sharon, I'm not sure why you're going to Rome (to watch?)...In any case, all of these suits (speedo, tyr, nike, jaked, blueseventy, etc) are available to everyone. Each swimmer and their coach has the ability and the opportunity to try out and select the suit that works best for their athlete. It's a part of an athlete's preparation just as much as weight training or pool work now. It's nonsensical to imply that it won't be an "even playing field" simply because the suits exist, when anyone in Rome as an athlete will have access to them. If this displeases you, get a refund on your flight and write a poorly punctuated soliloquy on the subject. You'd be much happier.
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#160
Swimma-zn   May 19, 2009 at 6:43am
this is an extract from the article on Swimnews.

You ask: did you watch the 50 freestyle in Charlotte? Yes, I did. yes, I saw Mr Jones and others wondering what the hell they ought to wear this summer. Are you suggesting Brett that Jones and Phelps and the others who Fred slaughtered are not working hard enough? Or perhaps they're doing the wrong type of work, or perhaps they are just at the wrong point in their cycle? You tell me. All I know is that the best several performances over 50m and 100m free by Fred this season are way, way beyond any other season of performances he has seen in his career.
ok first of all Mr Lord, he didn't say anything of the sort. If half the field was wearing the same stuff, and Fred beat them, its beating them fair and square. everyone was in the same boat.
and if your argument is, "Perhaps Michael would have won the race had he worn Jaked" then why did Magnini choose to wear Speedo instead of Jaked at the Olympics ( from the official Olympic Website)
and then, if your next argument is preference, then surely it doesn't matter what suit anyone wears, as long as its performance enhancing.
Maybe Brett is just implying that Fred is just a better sprinter than Mike or Mr Jones.
this is definitely a possibility, because, unlike the other two, Fred actually held a world record for the 50 free, SCY and Meters.
and as for his sudden peak in swimming, perhaps his body is now at peak physical strength, or he has learnt to finish a LC race, and live up to his fantastic SCY career?
there is no doubt that suits have played a role in recent swimming results, but the fact is, with all of them wearing performance enhancing suits, he still pounded them by over half a second on the 50.
"Fred beat the field by over half a second in the fifty. That was not the suit Craig. Its was Fred", is what you say Brett. Not true. It was Fred in great shape - and the suit. That's the truth. Admit it.
No matter how good the engine is inside yours car, you still need the wheels to drive.
Good job with Fred, Brett
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#159
swimmd   May 19, 2009 at 6:39am
John Bradley said:
So according to the haters, we should go back to the past. Where do you stop? FS-Pro? Fastskin? Aquablade? S-2000? Paper Suit? Lycra Suit? Nylon Suit? Wool Suit? Each generation has had an effect on the person wearing it - maybe not as much as the current suits, but an effect nonetheless.

Every generation of suits has helped athletes go faster. The technology was not available up until now. There will always be a group of people who can work within the rules to gain a competitive advantage, unless people are willing to bust out their birthday suits. You can be a luddite or you can be an early adopter. Holding the sport back in the past is a sure way to guarantee it's being obsolete in the future. Evolution is a natural process - it's going to happen no matter what sport you participate in. Name one sport that maintains a large participation base that has not seen fundamental technical and rules changes in the last 30 years.
This is a great truth. Obviously the suits have advanced and helped swimmers achieve faster times...otherwise, the manufacturers wouldn't have spent the resources and money to develop them. The ENTIRE purpose of wearing ANY suit has always been that it conveyed some sort of improvement over the alternative, whether past technology or another contemporary suit. This has always been true.
Yes, the new technology has helped swimmers get faster but it's made pretty much everyone faster. If there is a bell-curve to swimming performance: few at the top, many in the middle, etc, it has been shifted over, perhaps but not disrupted. Freddie is not the faster man in the world because of a suit. He's the fastest man in the world because nobody, in any suit, can beat him.

That said, I wouldn't necessarily be opposed to some of the finer of our species "bust[ing] out their birthday suits" but that's neither here nor there.
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#158
Anonymous Coward   May 19, 2009 at 6:19am
If craig lord had the chance to be in Fred's shoes in that nationals, I doubt that he would be saying this crap about the suits..he would wear it, obviously. And all that stuff about Fina, "...they want the suits to go because they not only damage swimming and the swimmer..." that is so naive, the only thing they got in mind is: if we keep the suits, people will still be talking about swimming, records will keep falling down, it's just about making sure that everyone has access to it...if they don't keep the suits, it's because they want more audience for Rome, and then stick with the idea of the "real swimmer"...what they're really worried about is business, that's it!
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#157
NYS Swimming   May 19, 2009 at 6:14am
Consider the words of Ralph Waldo Emerson

"To laugh often and much;
To win the respect of intelligent people
and the affection of children;
To earn the appreciation of honest critics
and endure the betrayal of false friends;
To appreciate beauty;
To find the best in others;
To leave the world a bit better, whether by
a healthy child, a garden patch
or a redeemed social condition;
To know even one life has breathed
easier because you have lived;
This is to have succeeded."
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#156
Anonymous Coward   May 19, 2009 at 6:06am
It saddens me this morning to read craig lords response to bretts comments. He claims to be a journalist who writes for the respected times newspaper however over the recent months his articles have been more suited to the news of the world (british trash paper that broke phelps smoking scandal). Firstly who is craig lord some jumped up british journalist! What has he done in swimming? he talks alot about who he respects as coaches but what exactly has he done which deserve respect from the swimming community! In his article this morning he states that he respects those coaches who support the banning of the suit. but the question that needs to be asked is why do they hate the suit? Is it because it changes the rules of training and they cant get out of old habits to adapt there training methods. secondly he states that he spoke to a former world champion now coach (clearly throws in the former world champion as if this opinion means more than yours or mine) watched a girl who didn't have the figure of a world class swimmer set a great time. WHAT who are you or anyone else to decide what a world class swimmer should look like you jerk! I realize that there are certain attributes that world class swimmers have in common however that does not mean that someone who does not fit a profile can not be a world class swimmer. i can think of several female world record holders who are very different body shape and size from the rest (and yes both prior to the suits and now). I have the upmost respect for brett hawke and his comments and to me only solidifies my thinking of who i respect the man who was a world class swimmer and now a passionate coach who will defend his swimmers for slander or the man from the UK who is fluent in four languages and hides behind a pen. well if you read this mr lord there is no translation needed GET LOST and leave the sport to know those who know best the ones who live and breathe swimming everyday!!
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#155
breathefire   May 19, 2009 at 5:55am
I agree with Craig. Technology has no place in sports, and certainly has never been a part of swimming.

Let's go back to Weissmuller: heads up, faces dry, hips down, no goggles, no caps, and cotton wrestling tunics from shoulders to knees.
They dug a hole in the middle of the Olympic track in the 1920s and swimming events were held in the resulting mud pond. so let's get rid of lane lines while we are at it.
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#154
Samuli Hirsi   May 19, 2009 at 5:42am
funny that in his rebuttal swimlord uses unidentified swimmers as a basis of his theory, why not name them so every one can see if that is the case...
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#153
John Bradley   May 19, 2009 at 5:15am
So according to the haters, we should go back to the past. Where do you stop? FS-Pro? Fastskin? Aquablade? S-2000? Paper Suit? Lycra Suit? Nylon Suit? Wool Suit? Each generation has had an effect on the person wearing it - maybe not as much as the current suits, but an effect nonetheless.

Every generation of suits has helped athletes go faster. The technology was not available up until now. There will always be a group of people who can work within the rules to gain a competitive advantage, unless people are willing to bust out their birthday suits. You can be a luddite or you can be an early adopter. Holding the sport back in the past is a sure way to guarantee it's being obsolete in the future. Evolution is a natural process - it's going to happen no matter what sport you participate in. Name one sport that maintains a large participation base that has not seen fundamental technical and rules changes in the last 30 years.
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#152
Canadian Eh?   May 19, 2009 at 5:10am
To all the suit haters out there......get over it. These suits, unlike before the Olympics, are now available to everyone. Let's not forget, in the beginning the reasoning for most of the negativity towards the LZR and the like was that not all could get their hands on one. That argument no longer stands.

Why all of a sudden go after swimmers who wear Jaked? That suit, along with the Blueseventy, TYR and of course the LZR was available and worn at the Olympics, yet the Jaked received very little to no fan fare at the time.
Now that there are swimmers breaking world records in it, suddenly some believe that it's an abomination and it will destroy swimming as we know it. That's just plain silly.
The world of swimming is evolving, as it should. Do these suits help? I believe so, however if everyone has access to them, then the "playing field" is more or less level. Sure the old records will get taken out, but remeber the old adage "records are meant to be broken"
As to Craig Lord and his hate-on for technology in swimwear, it's remarkably tiresome. I strongly believe he single handedly has turned the media focus to become increasingly negative towards swimming.
Canada recently had one of our own break a world record, and immediately he cast a negative light on her accomplishment, as he has with most who dared use an approved suit. He's clearly on a witch hunt, and appears that he'd prefer to live in the past. I for one am not renewing my subscription to Swimnews until he tones it down, or is fired.
I applaud Brett Hawke for having the balls to confront the self proclaimed saviour of swimming. Well done!
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#151
Sharon Sprenger   May 19, 2009 at 4:12am
Brett, You are in la la land - the sooner FINA resolves this suit problem that is plaguing the world of swimming the happier everyone will be. I am paying a lot of money to go to Rome - praying of course that it will be an even playing field!!!! Lets hope that I will not be wasting my money!!!! This Jaked suit defies the laws of gravity - names are appearing on the fastest swims in the world that we have never heard of!!!! Get real and get off your high horse and put a pin in that inflated ego of yours!!!!!!
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#150
PacificSwell   May 19, 2009 at 3:39am
Some seem upset about what Lord has to say but I've seen very little in the way of logical counterpoints being made. It just comes across as emotive backlash. Yet Lord is the one "who's lost the plot?" If people are upset about the cloud hanging over the sport (and don't kid yourself there is a cloud) direct your ire at FINA who are the ones that lost the plot long ago. If they ever had a plot.

What sort of nimble mind does it require to evade the blindingly obvious? Some people have a vested interest in keeping up the charade. But it just gets old. It really does. Lord is persistent and his articles are known in the swimming community but he's not the reason Joe Public thinks the sport has become a farce. If people cannot see the detrimental impact the suits are having on the sport's ability to promote itself and that it has little to do with this journalist then that's a shame.
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#149
USA Swimmer   May 19, 2009 at 3:18am
Craig owned you little man...
http://www.swimnews.com/News/view/6866
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#148
Fatboy Duaine   May 19, 2009 at 3:13am
Naked - the sport has definitely progressed in many ways, but that progression has been clouded and overlooked. Not because Craig Lord is overdoing his comments, not at all. The great work of swimmers like Fred and coaches such as Brett has been denigrated because suits now play too big a role in major performances. Eventually, a line will be drawn and fair judgements can be made regarding the merits of each swim. Unfortunately, many great achievements of the past will be confined to the dustbin of history.
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#147
Naked   May 19, 2009 at 2:38am
Joeri Beetz, you have raised the real issues regarding suits and make very valid points in relation to age group swimming and contracts with sponsors. I think however, that these issues can be addressed in age group swimming by the banning of suits below a certain age as the Australian governing body has done. The issue of athletes obligations to their sponsors will be settled when each manufacturer has an equal suit out, which will be soon now that the new regulations are coming into effect. Don't get me wrong, a line needs to be drawn now before the overactive imagination of Craig Lord becomes a reality, and suits which have 8 arms and legs are produced, but why step back now when progression has been made? It will just leave a whole list of WR's that people will refer to as "swam in a Craig Lord suit".

If the line is drawn now, massive drops in the future will be prevented, but the WR's will still be attainable by the best athletes. I think it was Jon Urbanchek who, in a video on this website, said this process may take 2-3 years. The WR's of old are gone, but not forgotten. Many of the current swimmers are faster than record holders of the past, with or without the suits. The sport has progressed, that is all.
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#146
Question   May 19, 2009 at 2:37am
Can we get a Thumbs-Up button for these blogs? Haha
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#145
Scott Ehrmann   May 19, 2009 at 2:30am
If the blog-off were to take place, I'm pretty sure Brett just won
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#144
Scott Ehrmann   May 19, 2009 at 2:29am
Just out of curiosity, how does the activity of this blog compare with popular blogs past? This is definitely the most talked about topic I've seen on this site in a while.

Garrett? Chris?
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#143
I AGREE!   May 19, 2009 at 2:18am
First man under 19 in the 50 yard free. 19.01 for 11 years until Fred came along. You tell me he isn't deserving, and I will call you silly. Everyone in the finals is wearing the suit, and Fred still comes out on top. THE SUITS MAKE YOU FASTER. But the ones who deserve to win, will still win.

End of story.
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#142
Joeri Beetz   May 19, 2009 at 2:17am
A little note from a Dutch swimming coach. Craig Lord may start to sound like a CD player on repeat, but he is completely right. I'm very pleased that at least someone is trying to make clear to the world of swimming that we are heading into a wrong direction.
As every other sport, swimming is unfair. It always was and it always will be. Some have more talent, some have more money. However, what we want to test in competition is who inherited the most talent and who did the hardest work to reach the limits of his talents. With the modern suit circus, that's not what we test anymore.
True, if everyone wears the same suit, it looks like a fair race. But what's the point in making the full final one or two seconds faster? Except from making it impossible to compare a result to results in previous years, there is no effect. And that's one of the things that makes swimming a great sport. You can become a great swimmer by winning the WC. You can become a legendary swimmer by winning the WC, while breaking a 5 year old WR.
And the biggest problem is that not every swimmer is able to wear the same suit. Top swimmers have to wear the suits of their sponsors. When you sign a contract, you have no idea whether your sponsor will be able to deliver the winning suit for the coming championships. Not signing any contract is also not an option for most swimmers. At lower levels and younger ages, the problems are even bigger. Some (parents) can buy a suit, and some don't. The faster we make the suits, the more unfair competition will be.

One more question for those who still think that fast suits are helping the sport. If performance enhancing suits are allowable, why not fins and paddles?
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#141
Fatboy Duaine   May 19, 2009 at 2:14am
Craig Lord is a true hero. This suit scandal needs to be resolved. Without his constant attacks, the issue could go away and the sport ruined forever. The reason that every article he writes mentions the suits, is simply that it id no longer possible to make a judgement on how good a swim has been performed. If athletes wish to give their opinions on the matter, they should be prepared to be challenged.
There are many in the swimming community who are in complete denial about the suits and Fred is one of them.
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#140
Naked   May 19, 2009 at 2:10am
Also, asking Fred or any other swimmer to stand up in skimps and repeat their best performance is ridiculous. Best performances are usually only achieved 2-3 times a season, when shaved and tapered, so how could one possibly be expected to stand up mid-season and achieve this?

The only time for an athlete to prove themselves, is on a taper and at a major meet. Like Worlds for instance, but it would be absurd and costly if everyone else is wearing a suit. Remember the point of a major meet is to win, not to be a hero to a sad journalist in need of a decent bed time story to tell his two children at night. God help them.
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#139
Naked   May 19, 2009 at 1:51am
Dar, no one is doubting the suits are resulting in increased performance, but they are available to everyone so it's fair. Whether or not suits were banned, Fred would still be number one in the world for 50 free (or there abouts), that is the point Brett is making.

The highly manipulated, and largely subjective, evidence Craig Lord presents with regards to the suits working better for some than for others is ridiculous. It is based on opinions and pool side conversations, often by failing coaches, although apparently by many of the 'leading coaches' in world swimming. Ok so if this is true, where are the objective measures? Craig speaks of Jacko and Vorontsov having evidence of suits affecting people in different ways, but two opinions do not make it empirical.
The fact is, it would take years and countless trials involving thousands of athletes to gather any kind of substantial evidence which is even remotely valid. Not just warped statistics of a journalist trying to be a martyr. Notice how many crucial pre 2008 statistics Craig leaves out in an attempt to manipulate and support his 'findings'. Freds split of 47.0 in a relay in 2003? Alains 48.1 at French trials 2007 in an FS2!?! If such results aren't crying out potential I wonder what is...
Remember, no one is denying the suits are increasing performance, but they are available to everyone so lets see who's still number 1 come worlds... By bet is Fred or Cesar. Deservedly.
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#138
Poop Head   May 19, 2009 at 1:36am
You tell them Peter_Galick (if that is your real name)

Brett is totally right that Craig attacked the foreign athletes a little rougher than would be expected for an American one. The fact of the matter is every athlete at the meet was trying to get their hands on the Jaked suits, and that is the point that swimming is at right now: find the best equipment and use that equipment.
Let me draw an analogy if I may...think of a few years ago at the winter olympics when the new 'clap' speed skate came out, everyone was up in arms about it being unfair, because all these no-names were breaking world records all over the place. Now, many years later, we see that the skates or status quo. This is the future of the suits, everyone needs to chill out, wait about 10 years until we get some precedent for what is fast again, and just enjoy the ride while it lasts.
USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA
we'll see what happens at world champs...
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#137
Zsolt Koszorus   May 19, 2009 at 1:27am
And at last to the words:"Should Usain Bolt sprint in flat shoes even while everyone else in the race wears spikes?"

Fred, as i know, was never swimming naked...
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#136
Dar   May 19, 2009 at 1:23am
Brett,

If you truly believe suits are not the issue, I DARE you to have Fred wear a brief at Worlds. End of story. You chicken?
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#135
Zsolt Koszorus   May 19, 2009 at 1:22am
To everybody who don't realize the effect of this new suits, let it be the Jaked, the LZR, the Blue70, the X-glide, the FS-Pro, the Tyr, the Diana, it's easy to proof:

One swimmer, two 50 meters, one in briefs, one in a suit he likes.
That's all.
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#134
Zsolt Koszorus   May 19, 2009 at 1:16am
it's too many comments out here, and i'm too lazy to read all, but as i see there are still many blinds.
Sure, you are a great coach Brett, and also Fred is a great swimmer, but what i don't understand, if it's really so, than why this insistence to the new suit?
Why can't you proof that it's not the suit with one single 50 meter in a brief?
Why is it so hard?
I'm not a fan of Phelps, because i'm hungarian, but in charlotte he was wearing only leggings (i don't know which brand), and the rest LZR, only Fred was wearing this red thing. You think it was equal?
Maybe Craig was going too far, but he is not the only journalist who thinks so, and not the only swimming fan in the world who thinks it's not fair.
Not against the other swimmers, against the sport, the history of this sport, and the greats of this sport.
Now there are many swimmers on the world rankings, who never would be there. Simply they aren't so good!
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#133
BH75   May 19, 2009 at 12:50am
Brett stop trying to write an argument against Craig Lord. He just ripped you apart with his response. He is a journalist who works for a prestigious British newspaper, you are a swim coach. Stick to what you do best. There is no doubting that you are a great coach but don't be so naive and say that it is not all about the suits. Sadly it is. All over the world when people heard Fred went 20.9 I don't think I have to inform you what their first question was. Right, "what suit was he wearing?" When that becomes the first question asked after a world record is broken, this sport has become all about the suits. People overlook your coaching and his athleticism because they simply don't believe his record to be legitimate.
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#132
Joec   May 19, 2009 at 12:41am
i'd really rather see the sport stick to a "humans conditioning sport" rather than "humans adapting to use their suits more efficiently" sport.

I think all men should have to wear briefs, and all women should stick with the basic swim suit coverings. With the limitations on amount of body covered, the effects of the suit would be minimized and technology and fair competition could continue.
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#131
Peter_Galick   May 18, 2009 at 11:52pm
I love how everybody says that swimming has a problem.

I'm sorry, but when did fast swimming become a problem? And why does the Fs-Pro, which was considered a pretty fast suit itself, suddenly not allow anybody to go faster? The key word there is "allow", technology doesn't force anybody to be faster, it allows it. The athlete has and will always be the driving force behind performance.
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#130
Anonymous Coward   May 18, 2009 at 11:49pm
Advice, don't ask rhetorical questions not everyone agrees with. :)
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#129
Swimnews Is A Joke   May 18, 2009 at 11:47pm
Agree entirely..... Craig lord needs to move onto new and better things, posting the same article 50 times a week is not good journalism.
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#128
Anonymous Coward   May 18, 2009 at 11:46pm
I would complain about a cure for aids. It's part of the reason we are overpopulated and degrading our natural resources to the point of global catastrophe somewhere in the near future. What happened to survival of the fittest? We can't keep on supporting the weak and poor just because we feel entitled to do something.
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#127
Who Is Craig Lord?   May 18, 2009 at 11:33pm
Would we complain about a technology that enhanced safety in vehicles?
Would we complain to each other about an advancement in the cure for AIDS or cancer?

No, then why do we care so much about a technology that makes our athletes faster? Suit have always evolved. Should we all be forced back to the S2000?
Has anyone actually analyzed each of the new suits out there? Last time I checked they are pretty much feeding us the same marketing message leading me to believe that there is not much of a difference. The only difference is our human preference for one brand over another.
In the end, who cares if Freddy wears a Jaked or Michael wears a LZR? It's only a sport.
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#126
Anonymous Coward   May 18, 2009 at 11:00pm
Akos Fabian said:
Another thought:

Wouldn't it be cool if there was a race format, where in prelims you were only allowed to wear briefs, in semis you could go up all the way to FS Pros and in the final you could wear what ever you want?
Or better yet, finals would be two rounds: first day you could only swim in briefs, then the next day in your choice of a fastsuit and the winner would be decided by adding up the two times.
That is a hella sick idea dude. It could be like that Encore meet in texas where a bunch of superstars show up for a fun midseason meet.
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#125
Akos Fabian   May 18, 2009 at 10:56pm
Another thought:

Wouldn't it be cool if there was a race format, where in prelims you were only allowed to wear briefs, in semis you could go up all the way to FS Pros and in the final you could wear what ever you want?
Or better yet, finals would be two rounds: first day you could only swim in briefs, then the next day in your choice of a fastsuit and the winner would be decided by adding up the two times.
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#124
legendinmyownmind   May 18, 2009 at 10:49pm
I have just visited Swim News for the last time! I just wasted a full 5 minutes of my life reading Craig Lord's disjointed justification for his hit piece against every swimming performance this year. Please Craig as a sign of your passion for the purity of swimming stop all writing as a protest until FINA mandates all future swimmers must compete only in suits designed before 2008.
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#123
Akos Fabian   May 18, 2009 at 10:48pm
Does anyone else feel like we're swimming in circles??

To be fair, Craig Lord has ripped on the LZR as well, its just that the latest round of records were not set in the LZRs, so he has a new evil to focus on.
But to every madness there is a seed of truth: we need to know how and by how much the suits help. Once we figure this out we can decide whether we want this kind of effect in our sport.
And please don't compare swimming to equipment based sports. There is no cycling without a bicycle, no tennis without a racket, no baseball without a bat and no golf without a club. The equipment is the essence of these sports, these sports from the get go are intertwined with the equipment and technological improvements. But you don't need a fastsuit to swim.
If you want to compare swimming with anything, compare it with running. The goals are the same: travel a given distance faster than anyone in the race. In the end that's the only thing that matters. As for the time results: in running if you have back wind above a certain strength (I believe it's 2 or 3 m/s), you can't legally brake the WR. So at least sometimes it does make a difference how you brake a certain time barrier...
This doesn't mean you can't marvel at how fast people can move forward (either on land or in water), but we should acknowledge that it's just not the same thing if you're being helped beyond a certain degree by outside circumstances. Just how big of an outside circumstance the suits are and whether wearing them is still the same thing as swimming in briefs remains to be seen...
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#122
Hells Yea   May 18, 2009 at 10:46pm
1. Brett Hawke having a blog on this site is awesome and I hope to see more
2. Buosquet seems like a really nice guy, but I would be scared to have a one on one meeting with him(craig lord)
3. It was awesome to see such an intense race at a grand prix and even more awesome to hear bousquet describe the intensity in the ready room
4. I hope to see more of Bousquet phelps match ups in the future
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#121
Anonymous Coward   May 18, 2009 at 10:20pm
No matter what Craig, or other individuals say - a coach willing to stand up for his athletes while they are being attacked (non stop at that) is a coach I would love to have an opportunity to swim for.
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#120
Anonymous Coward   May 18, 2009 at 10:20pm
yawn....Craig Lord is like that fly at your cookout...wants a piece of the action, but in REALITY is very annoying and irrelevant.

better yet...he's like that guy in SouthPark playing World of Warcraft....
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#119
Anonymous Coward   May 18, 2009 at 10:12pm
SwimNews said:
SwimNews has become an opinion column for Craig Lord. Fox News does a better job of fair reporting.
OOOOOHHHH!! BURN on Craig Lord! I am a right leaning individual and that is still extremely funny.
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#118
Anonymous Coward   May 18, 2009 at 10:04pm
I agree, go to your club presidents and propose canceling subscriptions to swimnews. Promote both coaches and athletes to refuse giving them interviews as long as Craig Lord spews this GARBAGE fake journalism.
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#117
Dogcatcher   May 18, 2009 at 10:01pm
I will keep saying it over and over - while I agree with Brett in alot of ways, the easiest, fastest, simplest way to end this argument is to swim in a FSPro and go within 2 tenths of 20.94 - if he does it, arugment closed, however by not doing so, despite Brett being right in alot of ways, you are saying Craig is right
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#116
Aron Nakama   May 18, 2009 at 10:01pm
In this case, it wasn't the suit. Technique had something to do with it.

The reason for Phelps getting beat is not his swim suit. His straight arm finishes too far back in his stroke. Bousquet's elbows exit the water earlier and at a much faster rate during the 1st 50 when Phelps was attempting straight arm. In doing so, Bousquet was able to maintain the momentum from the power phase of his stroke into his recovery, and because he had a faster arm velocity into his recovery, he was able to generate a faster stroke rate.
During the 1st 30-35 meters of the final 50, Phelps went into his classic freestyle. Which, I am assuming felt better. Here's why, he was able to manage the weight of his extremities (arms) more efficiently. He finished earlier in his stroke and was able to get his arms out of the water with less effort. His elbow velocity through the finish of the stroke was much faster as well.
Straight arm will produce more power if you can manage where you finish your stroke. Phelps will be much faster if he can finish his stroke a little earlier, with a slight bend in his elbow on the finish.
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#115
Anonymous Coward   May 18, 2009 at 9:55pm
amen.
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#114
Anonymous Coward   May 18, 2009 at 9:49pm
don't shut craig lord up because it's his right to say what he wishes to...
i propose athletes stop talking to swim news, club stop purchasing their magazines... why can't swimnews and swimnews.com report on other aspects of swimming such as training methods and new faces within the swimming world. we the people give him an outlet - take the outlet away and swimnews will go under... there have been plenty of coaches who step up and talk back to the media, but never have i seen the media write personal attacks on indiiduals - craig is taking a page out of FOX news... however i'd say even worse!
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#113
Records Are Made To Be Broken   May 18, 2009 at 9:46pm
The fact is, records are made to be broken. Whether it is done with a suit or without it, it doesn't really matter. Lord says that athletes are saying "I can cut out the whole core training phase because I can just put the suit on and it will hold me in the right place." This is completely inaccurate. The suit can only do so much. It isn't going to take a 21.0 50 freestyler down to sub-19. And to say that athletes can now skip phases of training because a suit will make them faster...idiocy. Lord needs to remember that swimming is about racing. If Fred chooses to skip his ab workout because a suit will compensate, Cullen/Bernard will do their ab workouts and ultimately beat him. Simple logic. Like Brett says, Fred has put in the work and he certainly deserves the credit.

Furthermore, no one complained when cycling allowed aero bars. Technology is apart of our lives. In the short term, it may help us improve a little. But once everyone has access to that technology (as everyone does with the suits now), the "advantage" the technology gives us is utterly irrelevant.
Finally, we must remember that although people may be breaking records with the suits on, this does not discredit the accomplishments of either the swimmers breaking the records, nor the swimmers who formerly held the records. Look at the record books. Janet Evans still holds records. Mary T. Meagher is no less of a swimmer because she no longer holds the 200 fly record. Alexandre Popov is and will always be a great sprint freestyler. Just because Fred has gone faster than Popov in a suit that Popov did not have access to does not mean that Fred is less of an athlete than Popov. Craig has gotten too attached to those records when he should be celebrating the progress of swimming. Isn't the object of swimming to go as fast as possible?
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#112
Kyle Morrison   May 18, 2009 at 9:23pm
if craig lord had any credibility (which he really doesn't), then he lost it when writing the response to brett's article. he really is beating a dead horse. and i've never heard of a reputable journalist who uses the term "bull" in an article. his reply to the diet coke comment was a response that makes me remember my days in the 6th grade, where comebacks like that were still kind of funny.

seriously brett, you are an awesome coach. the fact that you have come to the defense of your swimmer this strongly is a testament to how great of a coach you are. if craig lord cannot accept that you are far more valuable to the swimming community than you are, and insists on writing these flaming articles about you, then he really is as narrow-minded as we have all come to believe.
why do we even listen to craig lord anymore? not that i ever did in the first place, but this guy isn't even a legitimate journalist. my time online would be better spent watching dancing hampsters on youtube than reading his long, poorly edited rants.
but if craig lord is this irate now, i can't wait to see how angry his blogs will be after freddy and cielo dominate at worlds.
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#111
Brett Hawke>craig Lord   May 18, 2009 at 9:20pm
craig is a better writer than brett. that is all.
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#110
John Bradley   May 18, 2009 at 9:17pm
Also - hats off to Brett to write in a forum that accepts comments. Lord doesn't have the balls to accept them on his site.
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#109
Dropday   May 18, 2009 at 9:15pm
The truth is, things have gone too far.
It is true that Phelps was helped by the suit in Beijing. It is also true that Phelps swam 1:52.09 in the 200m fly in Melbourne 2007 without the suit, and repeated almost the same time with the suit in Beijing. Phelps already proved to be consistent before 2008. Taking Phelps as an example is somehow misleading.
What about the 100m freestyle? Nobody seems to remember it, but before this all started nobody but Van den Hoogenband and Nystrand had swum faster than 48sec, and Magnini was a double World Champion. Now Bernard has broken the 47-barrier after battling all over 2008 with Sullivan for the world record, while in Beijing Nystrand finished 8th and Magnini was kicked out in the semis touching 9th after being forced to change his Olympic training to sort out in the suit madness. How fair is that?
A Dutch breaststroke swimmer swam 59.50 in a suited time trial and then came back 2 hours later without the suit clocking 1:01.8 in a national championship final. It is obviously unfair. If anybody trained in the same suit and competed with the same suit, then the strength of the swimmer would come out and that would be fair. But in the real world it is not like that. Many episodes are there to be taken as examples, everywhere in the world. And it is not a matter of the single swimmer or a nation.
I personally don't want swimming to take the same road as Formula 1, where technology overshadows human skills and a sudden change in rules can shatter all training programmes and give advantage to some more than to other competitors.
Craig Lord is just an influent journalist making his point, maybe he's becoming redundant and boring to many of you, but he's right. Many people who know nothing about Lord and SwimNews are confused by all these fast times, and are starting to raise doubts about the fairness of it all. Denying the problem is not the best way to get over it: this is the real point Lord is making. We will see what will happen after the suits are banned in 2010. In the meantime, criticism cannot be avoided, for Bousquet as well as for French, Brazilian, Italian, British, American, Japanese, Australian swimmers and so on. For everybody.
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#108
John Bradley   May 18, 2009 at 9:15pm
If Lord is so sure of this, why hasn't he ripped Phelps for wearing the LZR? If he's willing to call out everyone else, I'd like to see him make the claim that Phelps couldn't have won 8 Golds without the suits. After all - it's the suits, right?
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#107
DLL   May 18, 2009 at 9:13pm
The line between athleticism and science is thin. Regardless on which side of it FINA eventually falls, I will say this: to ban the suits, to restrict to jammers, or to ban materials above a certain percentage of permeability, would put male skin back in swimming, which would drive viewership and interest through the ceiling in London. Cheap? Maybe. But in a sport that's hungry for marketability and sponsorships, it wouldn't be such a bad idea for Fred & company to show the world - literally - what swimming really looks like.
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#106
SwimNews   May 18, 2009 at 9:11pm
SwimNews has become an opinion column for Craig Lord. He clearly missed the part in journalism about being unbiased. He is spinning quotes of athletes to promote his agenda. It's not journalism, it's complete trash. Fox News does a better job of fair reporting.
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#105
Bryan   May 18, 2009 at 9:07pm
Have arena and/or jaked been approved by fina yet?
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#104
Oh Boy...   May 18, 2009 at 9:03pm
Guys, get a clue. Craig is arguing that the suits make you faster. He chastised Bousquet and Hawke because they claimed the 20.9 was "all Fred". Stop being stupid, open your eyes. Is Fred fast? OF COURSE! He went 18.7 SCY years ago. Could he go 20.9 in a brief? Heck no. How about an FS Pro? Nope. Is Brett Hawke a great sprint coach? Obviously, yes.

All of the 2008-till-now tech suits need to be banned; Pandora's box has been opened, and manufactures will continue to stretch the limits to produce the fastest (and most lucrative) suit. I watched NCAAs this year. Talk about stupid.
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#103
David Rieder   May 18, 2009 at 8:59pm
Craig Lord is NOT American. I think he's British and works for The Times in London. What he's saying does get REALLY annoying, though.
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#102
Quinnn   May 18, 2009 at 8:58pm
Goood job get that whiner
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#101
DM   May 18, 2009 at 8:57pm
Go sip your diet coke!

HAHAHA. yes!
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#100
Lord Of The Medals   May 18, 2009 at 8:46pm
who the heck is craig lord? does he know how to swim? Has he won anything? or just another fat guy behind a computer? any help? Here is the deal.. there are many different suits available..some better than others. Jaked seems to be the fastest today but lets say later in the year speedo, arena or tyr come up with something even faster??

Lets give the credit to the swimmer inside the suit..we are all swimmers but with different suits.. thats all
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#99
Gabriel   May 18, 2009 at 8:35pm
If this suit was made by speedo and the americans were wearing noone would be talking about.. this is the just another arrongant move from a american journalist talking trash on the outsiders... Fina has too control the suits without favoring any specific company..like when they approved the LZR by speedo last year
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#98
Adin   May 18, 2009 at 8:34pm
damn Hawke told him
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#97
Lucas Vilas Boas   May 18, 2009 at 8:33pm
JackedAndNaked said:
Three Brazilians on 27.20 and under in the 50 breast in a Post-Olympic year. I guess they didn't feel like training that hard in the actual Olympic year, huh? Or maybe Cesar's victory inspired them beyond imagination?
don't say that! you don't know what you're talking about; or if so, why you took the breastroke? only they have the suits, or couldn't you validate your argument with some other event?

You say about post-olympic year. Where you watching the olympic year? Wasn't breastroke the most disputed events in prelims?
So isn't to be expected a bigger evolution in these events?
Brazilian swimmers are more used to fighting for a qualifying time. But when it goes to a next level in some event, qualifying time isn't enouth anymore and you have to beat others good as you are, of course they'll be motivated; yes, "inspired" as you say. Even in a Post-Olympic year.
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#96
To Fred Bousquet,   May 18, 2009 at 8:29pm
If you say you can do the time with out the suit then please do it so people will quit arguing. It's that simple.
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#95
David Rieder   May 18, 2009 at 8:14pm
Craig, admit it: you really are insulting Fred. How does he get any more benefit than anyone else from the suits? And, also, you are clearly biased (and getting paid) by Arena.
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#94
Anonymous Coward   May 18, 2009 at 8:10pm
Craig Lord just posted a pretty complete dismantling of the arguments above. http://swimnews.com/News/view/6866 Fairly long winded on his part (no surprise there) but quite complete.

I get tired of his decisions to bring the suit issue into all of his articles, however he is, on many levels, correct. I don't think it is fair for him to single anyone out, however the suits clearly have been advantageous for many swimmers, Freddy Biscuits included.
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#93
caliswim   May 18, 2009 at 8:10pm
craig lord strikes again...
http://www.swimnews.com/News/view/6866
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#92
Brett...   May 18, 2009 at 8:02pm
One word.. awesome.
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#91
Phelps At Ultra   May 18, 2009 at 7:57pm
So if MP has to have the suit in order to swim fast, then why did he do so well at the meet this past weekend in a leg skin? Le's see, he has been training for how long since the olympics and went what times? The talent is there. The suits enhance the times, but it is not only the guys breaking records that are wearing the suits. It is an even playing field.
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#90
Jukebox6   May 18, 2009 at 7:56pm
Craig Lord should be praised not denigrated, if he wasn't speaking out we would we wearing zoomers by the next Olympics....
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#89
Swimmy66   May 18, 2009 at 7:54pm
I agree with Trebb, NCAAs was farcical when the Auburn swimmers put on their Jakeds. It was a complete joke to see them obliterate their conference times, get out the pool and shrug their shoulders questioning how in the world they went that fast. Well Auburn I'll let you in on a little secret, you see that Jaked suit you just put on, yup that's what did it. Do you not see that a line has been crossed? Look how many world records have been broken in the last year. Progress, schmogress --what a load of bull.
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#88
Anonymous Coward   May 18, 2009 at 7:47pm
i love brett hawke, haha
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#87
Trebb   May 18, 2009 at 7:45pm
Brett are you living in a parallel universe? Craig Lord is the only one standing up for the integrity of this sport that has gone to the dogs. I am sorry but how can you claim that the suits have not ruined this sport? We were all there at NCAAs when your swimmer put on Jakeds and dropped several seconds in the 200 back even admitting that they tapered for their conference meet. I thought you were better that this...
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#86
HalfJaked   May 18, 2009 at 7:38pm
Matt Salzberg:
"in the 2003 World Championships the world record at the beginning of the meet stood at a 51.88 held by Michael Klim of Australia, and that was significantly faster than either Phelps, Sloudinov, or Crocker. But by the end of that meet, Crocker had lowered the world record to a 50.76. That was a monumental time drop on a record that had stood for 3-4 years."

Actually, the record had stood since 1997 and I believe that time was swum in briefs. However, Crocker went 52.4 already in 2000 as a skinny teenager and Serdinov (Sloudnov is the breaststroker!) went 52.1 in 2002 at Europeans. Barcelona was a breakout meet for both of them and Phelps, well... Breakout meet would be an understatement. The three of them peaked at the same meet and competitors bring out the best in each other. The same CANNOT be said about the times we've witnessed since Feb 2008. From one day to the next, world records started dropping like flies almost simultanously. It (the LZR) was launched by Coughlin and Coventry in Missouri and by Sullivan in Sydney with immediate success.
And of course, Munoz Perez is a phenomenal swimmer, and Craig Lord agrees. But wouldn't we all love to see him go 50.5 in an FSII? Why hide? Why keep lying to yourself? Is it some identity crisis thing where you convince yourself to think 22.4 is entirely possible without the suit but won't try? Dogcatcher said it best:
"Is anyone not in agreement that Fred and others should just do a meet in FSPro and see what they go???? Or are people scared that this could discredit swimming even more as it could possibly show a real difference"
Schoeman, Magnini, Nystrand... the list of swimmers who don't seem to benefit from the suit as much as others is long. How about we allow flippers, that way Ian Thorpe's size 17 feet aren't such a big advantage!
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#85
FloaterBoatinSonofaB   May 18, 2009 at 6:33pm
To Brett I would also like to say:

I actually caught myself shaking my head after the Olympics thinking: did Phelps just improve by THAT much after Melbourne?? Then I remembered.... of course, the suits...!!
My point being: Phelps has proven himself time and time (and time) again. Athens, Melbourne... you name the meet. Suits, no suits. Doesn't make a difference. I actually think the suits helped Phelps less than other athletes, but sure had a part in him going 47.5 and 1.42.9... Not to mention when beating his other-worldly pb from Melbourne in the 2 fly despite goggle trouble. But don't tell me you're comparing Phelps' methodical improvement curve to 20.94!!
Craig misses the boat by calling Fred's 47.15 off-the-chart though... He went 46.6 in Beijing in the relay wearing a LZR. But when posting that legit 18.7, what did he go long course? The answer is (as always) simple: swimming is - as Craig outs it - living a lie... ditch the suit and show us what you can do. That's all there is to it.
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#84
legendinmyownmind   May 18, 2009 at 6:26pm
Loved the post Brett - The new suits are driving the evolution of swimming not it's demise. Gotta wonder if Craig Lord was equally outraged when men started wearing swim caps. Think how fast Spitz would have gone in that 100 Fly.
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#83
Matt Salzberg   May 18, 2009 at 6:19pm
JackedAndNaked said:
If Munoz Perez can't come to grips with the fact that THE SUIT just made him a world class swimmer, he should have no problem shutting everybody up by posting an equal time in a jammer.
In response to the fact that Munoz Perez this year has dropped about 2 seconds in his 100 fly, let us not forget that in the 2003 World Championships the world record at the beginning of the meet stood at a 51.88 held by Michael Klim of Australia, and that was significantly faster than either Phelps, Sloudinov, or Crocker. But by the end of that meet, Crocker had lowered the world record to a 50.76. That was a monumental time drop on a record that had stood for 3-4 years.

My point in this is that we can't attribute every great swim to the suits. They help, for sure, but that doesn't diminish the fact that swimmers (across all levels) are getting faster period. If someone needs more proof, look at the dual meet times of division 1, 2, and 3 athletes this year - a ton were faster than ever before.
And let me remind you JackedandNaked, Munoz Perez didn't become a world class swimmer overnight. That's like saying that the newest movie star in Hollywood just became a huge breakout star from nowhere. Nobody is from nowhere. I'm sure he's been putting in a huge amount of time in the pool/weights for the past 15-20 years (I don't know how old he is).
So lets give a bit of credit to where credit is due. The swimmers. Suits help, I'm not denying that. And as for the 50 record, here is my question. Popov swam his race in a time trial (with open lanes next to him). So his WR isn't the fastest that was swam in legal competition. Roland Schoeman had swam a 21.69 I believe before the suits. Where is he now? He's gotten older, for sure, but we haven't seen the same sort of drop from him as we have from Bousquet. Just another thing to think about... maybe its not just the suits...
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#82
Mr Norman   May 18, 2009 at 6:10pm
Congratulations Floswimming, giving the ability to speak back and not hide the true public response behind the shoutings of a jounalists with the luxury of monitoring his own site and keeping the "Real" feelings hidden form his agenda.
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#81
Eric   May 18, 2009 at 6:02pm
bravo.
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#80
Anonymous Coward   May 18, 2009 at 6:01pm
as for craig lord. the man is a total hack. this sport has always been for the swimmers and i dont know anyone who will tell you that they dont fell amazing when in a suit. so craig just step off and leave the sport to the athletes, not the phony journalists like yourself
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#79
JackedAndNaked   May 18, 2009 at 6:00pm
To Brett I would like to say:

It's an exciting time for swimming indeed. Three Brazilians on 27.20 and under in the 50 breast in a Post-Olympic year. I guess they didn't feel like training that hard in the actual Olympic year, huh? Or maybe Cesar's victory inspired them beyond imagination?
I think the biggest beef Craig has with the suits are the denials of people posting the off-the-chart times. For every time he's beaten the horse to death by saying "it's the suit!!", there are 10 swimmers saying "the suit doesn't swim by itself!!"... C'mon, hasn't THAT horse been beaten to a friggin pulp already??? If Munoz Perez can't come to grips with the fact that THE SUIT just made him a world class swimmer, he should have no problem shutting everybody up by posting an equal time in a jammer. Why insist on something not being a factor, yet continuing to play the game? It's like playing hide and seek, except everybody can see you :)
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#78
Anonymous Coward   May 18, 2009 at 5:58pm
brett is the man. even though he is still so young i think in the future people will be talking about hawke as one of the greatest coaches ever.
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#77
Dogcatcher   May 18, 2009 at 5:57pm
Is anyone not in agreement that Fred and others should just do a meet in FSPro and see what they go???? Or are people scared that this could discredit swimming even more as it could possibly show a real difference
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#76
DjQ   May 18, 2009 at 5:54pm
Anonymous Coward said:
brett man,
all your response is gonna do is make this guy even happier by bringing you down to his level. I'm sad to say i lost alot of respect for you. Just keep training good athletes and ignore keyboard warriors. why do you even care what he says. that just made you sound like a whiny girl.
Brett's comments are petty, I agree.

You didn't see Bob Bowman spouting off at internet swim sites when people were ripping Phelps for his bong pic (whether you thought Phelps' actions were wrong or right).
Who cares what anyone else thinks. Fred's times tell the tale. No one can blame Fred for wearing the fastest suit possible (we all would).
Get over it Brett.
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#75
Swim894613   May 18, 2009 at 5:52pm
great article brett!
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#74
Anonymous Coward   May 18, 2009 at 5:48pm
what's the difference between jaked and lzr???I think Fred was not only physically, but mentally mature and prepared for that record, and when your mind is that strong, you can expect the impossible..Phelps did it last year, why couldn't Fred do it?
Brett, I'm totally with you on this.
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#73
NakedOrJaked   May 18, 2009 at 5:47pm
Garrett: "Craig went on to credit the suit for the 6 tenths of a second that separated Fred from Cullen Jones in that 50 Free, but Cullen was wearing the same suit. I fail to see why Fred is being singled out in recent SwimNews articles."

I think the point Craig is trying to make is not that anyone should feel bad about wearing an unethical-yet-approved suit, but that the suits benefit some people more than others and not only are comparisons with records of the past impossible, but the playing field isn't level. It's like Animal Farm: All animals are equal, but some are more equal than others :)
Plus Fred is being "singled out" because he went friggin 20.94... I don't care how hard he worked; that kind of a drop from a professional athlete with great accomplishments in the past is unreal.
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#72
Sprint   May 18, 2009 at 5:40pm
Just Sayin said:
Fred should do it a real Speedo just to shut the skeptics up.
I agree, put FB in a pair of speeds and see if he can go 21.64 then decide whether the suit makes any difference
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#71
Anonymous Coward   May 18, 2009 at 5:38pm
does anyone have a means to contact craig lord directly?
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#70
Just Sayin   May 18, 2009 at 5:36pm
Fred should do it a real Speedo just to shut the skeptics up.
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#69
Anonyomous Coward   May 18, 2009 at 5:26pm
Totally behind you Brett! The suits have changed swimming, however Craig's articles are totally ludacris and completly disregard the efforts of the swimmers.
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#68
Anonymous Coward   May 18, 2009 at 5:23pm
brett man,
all your response is gonna do is make this guy even happier by bringing you down to his level. I'm sad to say i lost alot of respect for you. Just keep training good athletes and ignore keyboard warriors. why do you even care what he says. that just made you sound like a whiny girl.
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#67
Chris DeSantis   May 18, 2009 at 5:07pm
Anonymous Coward said:
"I'm a man! I'm 40! You come after me, not him!"
Here you go:


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#66
Anonymous Coward   May 18, 2009 at 4:57pm
impressive said:
the Oklahoma State coach's rant about a journalist calling his player a mommas boy
"I'm a man! I'm 40! You come after me, not him!"
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#65
Argemiro   May 18, 2009 at 4:44pm
Way to go Mr. Hawke! All I know is that some amazing swimmer is knocking at the door of the sprint territory. Well, awaiting him there are some guys from the French Legion, some marvelous aussies and, of course, the new brazilian kid on the block. Let's forget about the suits and let's see what will happen in Rome coming July (or June?). My bets are on Cesão who I believe is one of your boys, is he not ? May I congratulate you for saying so much truth and send you my best from Brazil.
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#64
Naked   May 18, 2009 at 4:42pm
At last someone as used an alternative swimming media platform to address Craig Lords outrageous and disrespectful comments. The way he has discredited Freddy is disgusting. Bravo Freddy and bravo Brett...

Elgaeraw, I don't really think typo's are the issue here. The point is clear and long overdue.
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#63
Distraught   May 18, 2009 at 4:38pm
My respect for Brett just dropped even though mine for Craig dropped a long time ago...and I agree more with Craig. Brett sees to have missed the boat on people saying the suits have determined champions. In most cases, the winner is the true winner...it's simply the records that have been disgraced. And NO, FB would NOT have broken 21.0 without his cheater suit and Brett knows that. Everyone is also sick of the "tech advancement and evolution" excuse. BS and everyone knows it. Just cause it makes you faster or better doesn't qualify it as advancement or innovation. No one considers steroids innovation...or maybe they do but wtf? I find it funny that 99% of those who say the suits are ok because they are natural progression can't come up with a single other good reason....they just keep repeating themselves.
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#62
Watchingeye   May 18, 2009 at 4:32pm
Anyone else notice how Craig Lord never calls out Arena? mmmmm advertisment next to his posts?
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#61
Craigwho?   May 18, 2009 at 4:30pm
Congratulations, you have voiced what hundreds of thousands wished to say. Swimmers support you, the industry supports you and their may even be staff at "The TImes" support you.
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#60
Impressive   May 18, 2009 at 4:09pm
all of you out there who think Hawke's response is not appropriate is wrong. I dont know if any of you remember the Oklahoma State coach's rant about a journalist calling his player a mommas boy or not, but that is the kind of response coaches need to give. I wish I swam for Brett Hawke, he has his swimmers' back.
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#59
Elgaeraw   May 18, 2009 at 3:47pm
Rule #1 of online blog fighting:

Make sure you spell everything correctly.
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#58
Darren Grose   May 18, 2009 at 3:33pm
Fred was 18.76 in 2005, 21.01 SCM in 2004, and split 47.03 to run down my favorite swimmer of all time, Ian Thorpe, at Worlds in 2003. I think one word can sum up the way he is performing right now: finally.
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#57
Chris E   May 18, 2009 at 3:26pm
Well said Brett! I couldn't agree with you more.
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#56
James McCreary   May 18, 2009 at 3:20pm
Good for you Brett. If Craig has a problem with the suits, than he should be free to criticize the suits, but when he starts attacking the swimmers in the suits he crosses the line.
WAR EAGLE!!!!
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#55
Leonidas   May 18, 2009 at 3:14pm
Brett Hawke and his swimmers deserve the utmost respect. Coach Hawke has changed the sport with his new and inovative ideas and it's great. Wasn't Fred 18.7 SCY years ago? No one said anything then....because he was ina normal suit. The suit doesn't make that much of a difference. I like the analogy Hawke made about track spikes. It's very legit.

Craig Lord should go back to eating his pie and drinking his milkshake.
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#54
Sick Of SwimNews Too!!   May 18, 2009 at 3:02pm
Nazz i understand you, but someone had to put an end on this. His statement was fairly good for what craig have said not about the suits, but to swimmers, that's a big deal and now CL should take care. it was not necessary but if he did so, i totally agree whit him.

Hey guys if u want to know some good stories instead swimNews, i would recommend the three little pigs that's a good one or the little red riding hood, well the wolf eats the grandma but hey he did not know about craig lord. Enjoy it.
hahaha, Leandro
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#53
Donald Spellman   May 18, 2009 at 2:58pm
Hello - There is no doubt the suits are helpful. I have seen this firsthand as a coach at meets from Sectionals and Grand Prix events to the Olympic Trials. While I hate the economic impact this has had on my athletes / club families I realize it is a growing pain that the sport has to go through and figure out (so get to work FINA and figure this out).
That being said I don't think attacks on the athletes are called for in any way at this level. Does anyone remember when the "clap skate" came out in an Olympic year for speed skating? The media was not attacking the skaters (even those like Dan Jansen who were having thier records broken understood this was an advancement). In cycling the pedals and equipment change and the athletes are not blamed for using new products and advancing the sport. FINA is typically reactionary and deals with problems AFTER they arise so I don't blame Fred or anyone at that level choosing to use LEGAL and APPROVED suits. It is too bad that Brett felt he had to do this but I think we all should respect him for defending his athlete.
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#52
Chiller   May 18, 2009 at 2:53pm
While I agree that Craig is stepping over the line, one cannot argue against the fact that the suit has a tremendous affect on athlete performances. I don't believe that Craig was making a personal attack on Fred, but that he was just citing an example of the new limits that the suits are bringing our sport to. And, Jordan being good because of his shoes is jumping to a ridiculous conclusion, Brett.

I commend you defending your athletes, but Craig does raise a good point that the suits are taking away some of the purity of the sport; certainly not the fault of any athletes, but FINA.
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#51
Garrett McCaffrey   May 18, 2009 at 2:53pm
I don't think anyone, including Fred, said that the suits don't make a difference. Craig Lord's stance against the suits is respectable because we should be aware of what's changing in our sport and how its changing. But the idea that this is in anyway an issue about the athlete's choice to wear these FINA approved suits is ridiculous. If we can't celebrate fast swimmers anymore then what's the point of being a swimming fan?
If you want to talk about the buoyancy, or the unfair accessibility, or even the idea that the new suits are benefiting some athletes more than others, fine. But keep in mind those are all issues with the suits, not the athletes. Its a pivotal time for our sport, and we can't afford to lose fans. Belittling swimmers personally is discouraging swimming fans.
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#50
Too Far   May 18, 2009 at 2:52pm
Craig Lord went too far with his article by calling names and villainizing athletes (Potentially even taking quotes out of context). Granted. But Hawke's certainly did not take the "higher road" with this response and took some cheap shots as well. Can't we disagree with some measure of civility and without calling each other names or attacking personal character? (In my opinion, BOTH sides are now guilty of this)

This is starting to turn into one of those petty "celebrity" fewds that I would like to think both gentlemen are above.
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#49
Anonymous Coward   May 18, 2009 at 2:51pm
Anonymous Coward said:
Ridicule from chicks
rare unless you're really ugly
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#48
Anonymous Coward   May 18, 2009 at 2:50pm
Anonymous Coward said:
Swimming would still be a lame sport with out full body suits and we should never consider going back to briefs. It takes too much humility and shame for any not to wear one. Ridicule from peers, chicks, siblings, etc. Is too much for kids to bear. This sport needs to remain progressive and not look back. Personally, I think Fred belongs on the cover of mens health and should be the face of swimming. But, I've heard it from so many fathers that they do not approve of their boys wearing briefs in competition, and as a coach I agree whole heartedly. Image is everything when it comes to a business, and swimming is no exception.
Are you kidding me?! As a coach you don't let swimmers wear briefs? wtf man, it's a part of the sport! Swimming is not a lame sport with or without full body suits; it is an AU'SOME sport. Being able to wear a brief means you are comfortable with your body and you have a positive self image. And btw the argument is not about whether LZRs, Jakeds, or the like are better for modesty, the argument is about whether or not they should be allowed.
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#47
Swimmer   May 18, 2009 at 2:40pm
Well said Brett! Thanks for being behind your athletes and any swimmer who goes for the best equipment right now. Craig Lord is a disgrace and with that said also a TRUE IGNORANT.
As for Fred, you are a true man and said it right: "the sprint house is in Auburn..."
Very well done guys. Please get Craig Lord back to wherever his is from, what a wanker.
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#46
Garrett McCaffrey   May 18, 2009 at 2:40pm
Hawke is the man said:
Garret,
When can we expect to see a video of Brett Hawke tips and thoughts on sprinting and sprint training???
I'm on my way to Auburn for a lengthy interview with Brett. If you have questions for him, post them here:
http://www.floswimming.org/topics/view/266-hawke-talk-questions
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#45
Dogcatcher   May 18, 2009 at 2:37pm
Good post, and fair points - as much as I think CL is out of bounds and Fred is clearly showing he is the best regardless of suits- I think CL makes one good point that no one seems to be addressing.

If these swimmers are so confident in themselves, why not have the WCTs or shave for a meet and go back to the FSpro - I feel like we keep hearing these arguments that its not the suit - can we not just have a big shave meet with FSpros and see what people go????
To Fred, Cielo, Bernard, every great swimmer - there will always be people doubting your records so long as you keep the new suits on - not saying it is right, just saying its the truth. Swim in a meet in the FS pro - show otherwise, by not doing so, you are admitting the suits make a big difference
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#44
Anonymous Coward   May 18, 2009 at 2:28pm
Swimming would still be a lame sport with out full body suits and we should never consider going back to briefs. It takes too much humility and shame for any not to wear one. Ridicule from peers, chicks, siblings, etc. Is too much for kids to bear. This sport needs to remain progressive and not look back. Personally, I think Fred belongs on the cover of mens health and should be the face of swimming. But, I've heard it from so many fathers that they do not approve of their boys wearing briefs in competition, and as a coach I agree whole heartedly. Image is everything when it comes to a business, and swimming is no exception.
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#43
Hawke Is The Man   May 18, 2009 at 2:12pm
Very well said. Swimming should embrace the human knowledge that enables them to perform better as long it isn't a knowledge that is harmful (steroids).

To a much better point.
Garret,
When can we expect to see a video of Brett Hawke tips and thoughts on sprinting and sprint training???
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#42
Finally   May 18, 2009 at 2:08pm
Thank you Brett...time to focus on the athletes again not the suits! I dare Craig Lord to argue with this.
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#41
Nazz   May 18, 2009 at 2:02pm
Brett is putting himself on the same level as Craig with this statement. To me, it's unprofessional and overly defensive.

Brett and his swimmers have nothing to prove. Anyone with any common sense knows that Craig talks way too much about the suits (but does happen to make a valid point now and then).
I'm quite honestly very surprised that the coach of the 2 fastest sprinters in the world would feel it necessary to go public with a statement like this.
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#40
Lucas Vilas Boas   May 18, 2009 at 2:01pm
awesome said:
YES

i'm going to get a brett hawke tattoo across my back
ahuehauehae!!!

and another epic appearance of Brett Hawke on Floswimming.
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#39
Swim TIDE   May 18, 2009 at 1:59pm
Brett,
Well said Craig is bad for the sport you athletes are great for it keep up the hard work
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#38
Sprinter   May 18, 2009 at 1:51pm
absolutely phenomenal Brett!!!!!! Craig Lord has been annoying the hell out of me for some time now with his nonsense that he spews daily! It's about time someone called him out on it!
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#37
Swimhouse   May 18, 2009 at 1:26pm
Tks Brett, about your words!!
Remember too...Thiago Pereira won(200 IM) because the suit too ya??(after broke your arm n like 5kg above your weight). Anyone do 1`58 in 200 IM, Ryan Lochte too, but he was achieved.So the BlueSeventy that Thiago used, swam alone!
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#36
Well Said, But   May 18, 2009 at 1:21pm
this didn't even need to be written in my book - fred and cesar speak for themselves in the pool. (this article still straight up punched CL in the face though, well done!)
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#35
Pinky Dolphin   May 18, 2009 at 1:16pm
Its amazing how you can go from one of the best journalists of swimming to one of the worst ones
This article is going to be remembered in a long long time.
Craig you just lost it!!!
One wrong move that made you look like trash!!
Try to disappeared for some time, maybe you should buy a Jaked suit. Try it yourself, you will see its just rubber.
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#34
Sick Of Swimnews   May 18, 2009 at 12:54pm
about time!
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#33
Awesome   May 18, 2009 at 12:50pm
YES

i'm going to get a brett hawke tattoo across my back
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#32
Garrett McCaffrey   May 18, 2009 at 12:49pm
Here's Fred's Interview from yesterday.

Making a Statement, Fred Bousquet
Get the Flash Player to see this player.

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#31
Blunder   May 18, 2009 at 12:45pm
I also stopped reading swimnews a couple of months ago. Swimming is EXCITING! It's getting coverage. At the top level the suits are equal - you can wear what you want at the Charlotte meet or any top tier meet.

How much better do you think a Jaked is than a LZR, and the LZR is hear to stay. Hate to tell you, not that much.
like medina14 says... REPORT NEWS and QUIT YOUR IN'.
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#30
Akos Fabian   May 18, 2009 at 12:45pm
Nice one Brett!

Although I remain skeptical about being able to go sub-21 without a suit (simply because we still don't know how much the suits actually help), implying that Fred would basically sink without the suit is plain stupid and unfair.
I have nothing against a healthy debate, but distorting facts (like comparing times of swimmers in different parts of training cycles, using Aaron's comments totally taken out of context) to prove your point is wrong and then to attack a specific swimmer is just so under the belt...
Craig Lord did something useful for swimming in the beginning, pointing out the problems with reckless suit approvals, however his bitterness and fanaticism is just hurting his cause and swimming in general. Maybe the FINA ruling this week will quite him down a little, although I have a feeling, that no matter the decision it will only make things worse: if they ban the suits he'll be going crazy with an "I told you so" tone, if they don't ban them, he'll just get more bitter and aggressive.
And yes, swimnews commentary is very biased towards Arena and long time established swimmers from the US and Australia, although they use and endorse the same types of suits.
Either way, I think personal attacks on swimmers for using a suit should be off limits and they should be shown the respect they deserve.
Keep up the good work with Cesar and Fred and could you maybe have them swim the prelims in Rome in regular Speedos? :)
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#29
You_may_call _me_Fastest   May 18, 2009 at 12:39pm
Nice one Brett. I'm not a fan of these new suits i have to admit, but i also appreciate that Fred's swim the other week was the result of years of hard work from him and your good self. It was fantastic to watch, regardless of what he was wearing. Good on you for sticking up for Fred, and keep up the good work you're doing.
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#28
Bring Em Back   May 18, 2009 at 12:29pm
John Gullotta said:
But hey, If I wanted a JO time I would not have hesitated to put on my paper suit. Remember those, no need for a comeback there.
I love paper suits. Bring them Back!!!
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#27
Anonymous Coward   May 18, 2009 at 12:24pm
The biggest problem I see with the new suits is that the worse you are at swimming, the more they help you. That being said, Fred would still be the most legit in the world without suits. FINA's new rules that will be implemented in the next few years will ensure that suits like B70 and Jaked are illegal, so no need for y'all to get your panties in a bundle (again).
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#26
Anonymous Coward   May 18, 2009 at 12:17pm
i like fred but he is just too big to be the BEST in the world without these new suits. at all levels right now big swimmers (both strong and just plain out of shape) are benefiting more from the new suits. while they would still be good without the suits they wouldn't be as good. we just have to decide if we are ok making swimming more about strength and less about skill.

brett seems borderline unhinged here.
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#25
Will   May 18, 2009 at 12:10pm
Way to go Brett! It's refreshing to see someone stand up for the swimmers for once. Keep it up and congratulations on all the recent success.
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#24
medina14   May 18, 2009 at 12:06pm
What?!?! Craig Lord doesnt like the new suits?!?! I have never heard that before!! C'mon Craig, every article you write has some sort of suit based content. I don't like the suits either but dam you want EVERYONE to hear YOU. Well listen to us...

...REPORT NEWS and QUIT YOUR BITCHIN'.


I actually stopped reading swimnews.com about 4 months ago because of the constant suit talk within reported stories. I do think the suits are cheating but I have worn one. You have to put yourself on a level playing field with everyone else. Simple as that. You can't (and don't anybody dare) blame the swimmer.
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#23
Eric Teske   May 18, 2009 at 12:01pm
oooooh snap! No he di'in't! Jerry! ... Jerry! ... Jerry!

I'm gonna stay out of this one, but I love the open dialogue!
Here is a list of the top 20 logical fallacies made in arguments, so my advice to writing an air-tight rebuttal would be to not commit a logical blunder
http://www.theskepticsguide.org/resources/logicalfallacies.aspx
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#22
The Screaming Viking !   May 18, 2009 at 12:00pm
I have to say... I used to really think Craig Lord was doing a good thing. It has just gone waaaayyyy too far. Our best and brightest athletes deserve better. Very well said, Coach Hawke.
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#21
Leandro   May 18, 2009 at 11:59am
I'm proud to have Brett Hawke as a Coach in the Brazilian Swimming World Championship Team.
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#20
Anonymous Coward   May 18, 2009 at 11:45am
Although I agree that the sub-21 effort Fred put in would not have happened without the suit (at that specific date anyway) I feel that suit or no suit Fred would still be the best in the world. He has put the work forth and it shows. Everyone is wearing the suits and Fred is only the same as everyone else, but instead of being glorified for an astonishing time and sticking with the times of the fast-suit era he is being singled out. Craig Lord was wrong for attacking Fred, but the times are still not as likely without the suits. Regardless of fast-suits or no fast-suits, the men and women at the top of the world would be there still. The only thing the suits are changing is the times being swum. It's all relative after all if everyone is at a LEVEL playing field with these suits.
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#19
Chris DeSantis   May 18, 2009 at 11:31am
I totally disagree. Everyone who won or broke a record this past year is totally undeserving:

http://www.floswimming.org/blogs/blogger/chris_desantis/6838-undeserving-champions

Just kidding, keep up the good work.
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#18
Matt Salzberg   May 18, 2009 at 11:25am
Brett, thank you for writing that. After reading his latest article (and to be frank almost every single article he writes) I was furious. Craig Lord constantly states that the ability of every new swimmer in the world as being "because of the suit." I think it's absolutely insulting to our sport. We know the suits help, but it is the athletes responsibility to give themselves every advantage.

And you are absolutely right to be mad about him signaling out Fred like that. He has been a dominant figure in the sprinting world for years, and it really isn't a surprise with the training at Auburn and his teammates success that he was bound to be great.
Thank you for speaking up against Craig Lord. He constantly demeans the accomplishments of athletes. And to me, anyone who attacks the athletes for their success and doesn't commend them doesn't deserve to call them self a fan of our sport.
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#17
Flow-So-Pro FS-Pro   May 18, 2009 at 11:20am
great article brett! and nice comparison to golf john. really with any sport technology improves but so does the intensity of the athletes training.

...anyone know why Clement Lefert is heading to usc and not somewhere like cal or stanford. kinda reminds me of oj mayo a bit
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#16
Peter_Galick   May 18, 2009 at 11:14am
I'm glad to see someone else shares my opinions on Mr. Lord. Ever since throwing down those relay splits in Beijing Fred has absolutely been on fire! Anybody who knows anything about the sport knows for a fact that Fred owes his recent success to his own hard work and the training and advice that you give him Brett.

I believe that no matter what countries cap you wear, we are all swimmers first. An unfounded attack against one swimmer is an attack against us all. I hope Mr. Lord realizes he has gone off the deep end and made his "news" website into a total sham. My case and point being the fact that recently, whenever he mentions Arena, he always portrays them as the only "innocent" suit maker, even though their suits are exactly the same at everyone elses. The funny part is, Arena is a primary sponsor of SwimNews.com...and that somehow passes as journalism to him?
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#15
Adam Depmore   May 18, 2009 at 11:12am
It's your program he's attacking, let the swimmers times talk for themselves. But he's attacking the way you do business, not cool.
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#14
R&R   May 18, 2009 at 11:09am
You guys still pay attention to what Craig Lord says?
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#13
Adam Depmore   May 18, 2009 at 11:08am
At least it's the suit that is the issue and not steroids. Granted there are a few that get caught every now and then, but not to the extent as other sports that we have seen.

Take it easy on Craig. He hasn't had the privelge to train someone that has the caliber of Fred or Cielo, nor does he have the capacity to train a swimmer at that level.
Great job Fred! You run an outstanding program as well Brett! What you've guys have done was more than just break records.
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#12
Ned   May 18, 2009 at 11:07am
Well said Brett!!
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#11
Andrew Cipriano   May 18, 2009 at 11:02am
Well said Brett. Congrats to you and Fred for how well he has been swimming.
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#10
John Gullotta   May 18, 2009 at 10:58am
Has anyone realized WHY swimming FINALLY has new technology? It has become a sport worthy of enough R+D to develop and progress. Until recently suits, caps and googles were all basically unchanged. Sure designs, shapes and colors came and went, but now we have something much more tangible, the need, want and desire to move forward with the sport itself.

When the ProV came out in golf, it was deemed unfair to players not using it. Still around. Can you imagine Basketball without the breakaway rim? Surely the game has been ruined because of the slam dunk. Track surfaces, cleats and outfits have changed and improved every year.
On the flip side, do we want to end up like MLB? Where many athletes think the best way to get better is by cheating, where there needs to be a congressional hearing about it, and congress gets lied to? Or wrestling, where there seems to be no big (mainstream) boosts in the sport for a few years now.
I was on the fence when I heard that suits were being worn at HS championship meets, I even saw a bunch of them at Silver level USS meets. I thought that was pushing it. But hey, If I wanted a JO time I would not have hesitated to put on my paper suit. Remember those, no need for a comeback there.
Fred B is an amazing athlete, and most importantly he is playing on a level playing field. The suits are here to stay and I totally agree with Mr. Hawke on this one. If you are not ready to move forward with the sport at least have the dignity to not trash the folks that are ready.
My $.02. Hope you enjoyed it.
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#9
Lucas Vilas Boas   May 18, 2009 at 10:58am
well said, couldn't agree more!
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#8
DI Head Coach   May 18, 2009 at 10:42am
Well said.
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#7
Garrett McCaffrey   May 18, 2009 at 10:41am
I've watched Craig Lord take every angle possible to speak out against the current advancement in swimming equipment, but his recent attacks on Fred Bousquet are uncalled for and completely out of line. The new generation of racing suit has changed swimming, but whose fault is that?  In yesterday's SwimNews article he personified Fred as the enemy, as if his opinion to keep the suits through World Championships (for the sake of consistency) now makes him responsible for FINA's decision in the fall of 2007. In the article he juxtaposes Fred's quote with Aaron Peirsol's opinion that the suits are a "nightmare," (Craig's words, not Aaron's). Yet, this weekend when Fred won the 50 freestyle in 21.33 at the Charlotte UltraSwim he was wearing a suit approved by FINA, while Aaron wore one that is not approved. Craig went on to credit the suit for the 6 tenths of a second that separated Fred from Cullen Jones in that 50 Free, but Cullen was wearing the same suit. I fail to see why Fred is being singled out in recent SwimNews articles.  
How is this the athlete's fault? Fred, like Aaron and Cullen, are simply putting themselves into the suits that give them the best chance to swim fast. Keep in mind that these swimmers are playing within the rules that have been laid out by FINA. I agree that the times in the last 18 months are not comparable to the times before the polyurethane suit era, and Fred himself never thought a sub 21 50 free was possible before the "bull run," of records in 2008. I support the idea that these times and these suits need to be discussed and I would be very happy to see everyone stepping up in permeable, non buoyant, suits. But it is completely out of line to fault the athletes for swimming fast within the current rules. 
We may not need these new fancy suits, but we still need fast swimmers. Swimmers like Fred were at the top of the sport before the new suits, and no matter how this situation turns out he will remain there. Like Brett said, you're shooting yourself, and the sport of swimming, in the foot when you attack one of its' greatest athletes.
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#6
End Of Discussion   May 18, 2009 at 10:37am
Well done Brett. His comments are doing nothing for the world of swimming, in a time that it is on the brink of becoming main stream.
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#5
Anonymous Coward   May 18, 2009 at 10:31am
Brett seems a little too defensive for me. Craig Lord goes too far, but in this response so does Brett. Neither of them are above taking cheap shots.

Not trying to take anything away from Fred. He seems like a really cool guy who's having an awesome year, but I don't see any reason we can't go back to the fs pro era. That seems like a happy medium. If Fred does it in a pro no one will doubt him. Simple.
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#4
JP   May 18, 2009 at 10:30am
PWNED. Celebrate the swimmer, not the suit.
Well said Brett!
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#3
3 Snaps   May 18, 2009 at 10:30am
Brett Hawke throwin down on Craigers. I would love to see CL respond on this site. Not only did he defend Fred, but brought some good hard facts to the table on why CL should shut his trap and stop his crying. Good for you Brett.
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#2
BRAVO!!   May 18, 2009 at 10:25am
Well done, Brett! I will continue to highly respect you and you're athlete's!
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#1
Swimfan   May 18, 2009 at 10:21am
I agree. Craig Lord is stepping over the line when he attacks the athletes. Way to stand up for your swimmer Brett
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