A Day At AFA

I cant wait to swim for the airforce academy, cuz i'm gunna bring the pain, with me the AFA is gunna dominate.

Gentlemen, and I'm using the term loosely (on BOTH sides of the argument here, cuz you ALL need to grow up), but you all are spending a lot of time arguing about things that you, nor your coaches, really have any control over. As an AFA 91 grad and swimmer, AF (mens team) only swam ONE inter-academy meet during my tenure. It was vs. Army. It was a very competitive meet, but AF prevailed in the end. But, to my point...stop taking pot shots at each other and swim the schedule that's given to you. Act like you are supposed to be the elite of collegiate student/athletes, because honestly...you are. Don't trash talk like PAC10, SEC or B12 athletes or fans. If the academies are destined to swim each other, it'll happen. Arguing online about who is better, or whatever, is useless. Settle it in the pool, but only IF the academy leaderships deem it so. Until then, leave your trash talk and bravado at the door. Your commanders in the 'real' AF, Navy or Army won't stand for this crap.

Grow up, go to class, go to practice and do the job you are expected to do. I think all your coaches would agree.

really? i dont see anyother service academies on here...hmm

air force... shut up... no one cares about you.

"you will regret the day you meet Navy Men's Swimming on equal terms"

Watch out, somebody took their tough pills today...

gotta love some good ole armed forces smack talk

Excuse me, I meant "no bias."

Patrick-

I have bias in the matter; I have friends at both USAFA and USNA, and I have great respect for both Coach Clayton and Coach Roberts. However, I feel that no one should be taking shots at a specific person, especially not someone who I happen to call a friend.

Mr. Veltman, you need to brush up on your research skills. The Top Gun/Navy connection was established in an earlier comment (see Navy'sbetter 10/27). Your comment "all this talk about our coach not having enough confidence to swim you guys is BS. our coaches just have different terms, and it hasn't been an issue until now. you falcons have the altitude advantage so swimming in colorado is gonna put us at a serious disadvantage." is worth talking about. The "issue" arose when Naby'sbetter (10/27) made spurious comments about the air force. Different terms? What does that mean? This is academy! You are being trained as leaders that are willing to overcome whatever obstacles are in your way by facing them head on. The USAFA team would meet you at the local Y if that's what it would take. Your excuse sounds like BS! I just think you guys are all reluctant to go up against the falcons.

This invite of which you speak is easier said than done, my friend. With the limited amount of respect swimming garners from any school's Athletic Department, this is logistically plausible but practically impossible. The only way it would possibly happen is if it made some cash money for the academies involved. But if we could sell this to ESPN, put it on TV, and get some sponsors that would be legit.

So get it done - you should have a academy invite at an elite pool all 5 teams invited. Even if the Coast guard and merchant marine aren't going to win it will give their top swimmers some great competition. Make it a taper or shave meet in december. Call it the Top Gun if you want or something else. Make your A and b cuts put the academies in the national spotlight. Talk is cheap just make it happen. Heck have it at T A&M they want to be an academy

So let me get this straight... it's ok to have a meet in Annapolis, but it's not ok to have a meet in Colorado Springs because of altitude. Didn't you say you wanted equal terms? To me it seems as though things would be equal if we swam at your pool, then you swam at ours. Maybe I'm just misunderstanding? Please explain.

PMM, why don't put your balls where your mouth is?

the air force and the navy are two different entities, and both our schools are awesome in their own ways. all this talk about our coach not having enough confidence to swim you guys is BS. our coaches just have different terms, and it hasn't been an issue until now. you falcons have the altitude advantage so swimming in colorado is gonna put us at a serious disadvantage. Kai, i don't care what paper says. you will regret the day you meet Navy Men's Swimming on equal terms. and whoever wrote in about the Top Gun clip, you are a disgrace to the man race. have you even seen the movie? Navy, dude. Navy.
floswimming, you guys should come to annapolis for sure.

NO ONE (This means you, Navy's Better) makes sarcastic remarks about Paul Parmenter on my watch except Chris Knaute, Paul Parmenter, or a select other group of people. Identify yourself to as a person who is part of that group, or don't say it.

i didnt know air force had a swim team... still a bunch of punks.

GO AIR FORCE! ENOUGH SAID.

In regards to the navy post about going air force not having the option to go SEALs or EOD, you forget to mention Air Force Special Tactics Officers, Combat Rescue Officers, Combat Controllers and Pararescue. Don't forget also that almost all SEAL teams and Army ODA teams beg for (most require) a person with a air force JTAC qualification on their detachment.

Jim Okorn is a great man, a man among men actually. Although I think even he will admit that he owes his great success to daily training and socializing with the fantastic members of the USNA swim team. Love ya Jim and the nick name stuck.

I just want to say that I'm with Adam Meyer on this one. I'd like to see all of the service academies perform well. At the same time, I'd like to look past the results laid out from last year and look at what type of meet this could be in the future, not one based on old times. I recommend taking a look at this page:

http://www.collegeswimming.com/news/2008/may/28/ranking-classes-11-25/
one important quote to note, from a rival coach, says that Navy "will continue to be the king of the service academies for the foreseeable future.” Enough said. It would be a good match up to say the least.

I know this post is about USAFA (kudos to their program and the fine officers and swimmers they produce), but I'd like to clarify something from an earlier post... Although there are three Div 1 service academies, there are actually five total including Coast Guard Academy and Merchant Marine Academy (both Div 3). Regarding Kai Y's post, in 2007-08 CGA posted times that beat some of the Div 1 academy "top 5 times" listed. Bobby Brown went 1:39.34 in 200 free, 4:32.15 in the 500, and 15:41.81 in 1650. Also Jim Okorn went 20.99 in 50 free. CGA's relays posted comparable times as well: 200 free relay (1:23.61), 200 medley (1:33.83), and 800 free relay (6:48.90). I'm not saying they could beat USNA, USAFA, or even USMA in a dual/tri/quad meet format, just bringing some well deserved attention to a Div 3 service academy program that packs a near-comparable punch but with only 1/4 of the student body of their D1 brethren. Go Bears!

Then next season, navy could set up tri-meet. Probably better, these teams have to budget and could be too late this season to throw in an extra meet. Point is, let's get some direct competition between all three academies...I think this would be a positive for recruiting. It seems that only navy is reluctant to go up against af- army and af are competing this weekend

Navy is at WP in 2008

Army swimming vs. Navy 12/4/08 in a dual meet at Annapolis. Navy, why not make this a tri-meet and invite the af team as well? If this date won't work, then schedule for next season.

Ask your coach regarding swimming against USAFA, let him know you would like to race AF. If he is willing to go up against USAFA, have him talk with the USAFA coaches-since he has been approached by them- and make arrangements that works for both teams. This season would be great! If he won't go for it, then what more needs to be said?

Remember guys at the end of the day you are all fighting on the same side

I'm not really quite sure our coach did that, but that would be pretty nice to race you guys. I think it would be even cooler at a tri-meet with Army as well. We have gotten a lot faster recently including a ballin freshman class. And if one of our top guys would not stop breaking himself throughout the season (you know who you are!!!!) things would be even better. (it might be closer than what you guys think) And one more thing, i want to keep this more friendly... Air Force is awesome!

ps-please come to navy floswimming! :)

Great comments kai and paul. I am imprerssed. Navy's better you sound jealous. It all just makes the recruiting process better seeing true colors come out.

For those that want unbiased information, here are the Top 5 times out of all three service academies in the 2007-2008 season

Total points
AIR FORCE 179
Navy 124
Army 29
200 MEDLEY RELAY
AIR FORCE 1:31.16
NAVY 1:32.03
ARMY 1:34.46
400 MEDLEY RELAY
AIR FORCE 3:18.55
NAVY 3:22.90
ARMY 3:23.86
200 FREE RELAY
AIR FORCE 1:22.16
NAVY 1:22.44
ARMY 1:25.50
400 FREE RELAY
AIR FORCE 3:02.42
NAVY 3:02.77
ARMY 3:07.69
800 FREE RELAY
AIR FORCE 6:36.32
NAVY 6:42.00
ARMY
50 FREESTYLE
OLDENKAMP JR NAVY 20.35
COWLING SR AFA 20.88
DAWSON FR AFA 20.99
AVERY JR AFA 21.11
BUCK SO NAVY 21.12
100 FREESTYLE
OLDENKAMP JR NAVY 45.07
AVERY JR AFA 45.33
COWLING SR AFA 45.54
BUCK FR NAVY 45.66
MIHALKO JR NAVY 46.17
200 FREESTYLE
AVERY JR AFA 1:37.22
OKEEFE SO AFA 1:39.10
JENKINS SR NAVY 1:39.41
CURRAN SO NAVY 1:40.36
DURHAM JR NAVY 1:40.46
500 FREESTYLE
OKEEFE SO AFA 4:25.83
HUNTER FR NAVY 4:27.25
HANSEN FR AFA 4:30.02
NEWMAN SO ARMY 4:31.97
LASCARA SR NAVY 4:32.62
1650 FREESTYLE
OKEEFE SO AFA 15:24.43
HUNTER FR NAVY 15:29.86
MARTINETTE FR NAVY 15:53.13
NEWMAN SO ARMY 15:54.83
WARNER JR NAVY 16:04.46
100 FLY
AVERY JR AFA 48.38
GUNN FR AFA 49.11
MORIN SO AFA 49.12
HETZNER SO NAVY 50.39
DUPRE SO NAVY 51.29
200 FLY
MEYER SO NAVY 1:47.70
GUNN FR AFA 1:48.14
HETZNER SO NAVY 1:50.04
COHEN FR NAVY 1:50.26
DIXON JR AFA 1:50.50
100 BACK
YAMASHIRO JR AFA 50.25
LIEDL SR AFA 50.89
GUNN FR AFA 51.05
HETZNER SO NAVY 51.41
WARD FR NAVY 51.88
200 BACK
YAMASHIRO JR AFA 1:48.03
GUNN FR AFA 1:48.57
WARD FR NAVY 1:50.82
VEY JR NAVY 1:50.82
LIEDL SR AFA 1:51.42

100 BREAST
DAY JR AFA 55.43
MENTELE SR ARMY 55.78
KYSIAK SR NAVY 56.57
MCLAUGHLIN SO ARMY 56.91
MOLINA JR NAVY 56.94
200 BREAST
MENTELE SR ARMY 2:00.87
LEROY FR NAVY 2:04.26
EDMONDS SO AFA 2:04.28
DAY JR AFA 2:04.46
MCLAUGHLIN SO ARMY 2:05.71
200 IM
MEYER SO NAVY 1:48.69
LIEDL SR AFA 1:50.44
GUNN FR AFA 1:51.54
JENKINS SR NAVY 1:51.85
MENTELE SR ARMY 1:51.87
400 IM
MEYER SO NAVY 3:52.76
VELTMAN FR NAVY 3:58.39
COHEN FR NAVY 3:58.45
VEY JR NAVY 3:59.53
LIEDL SR AFA 4:00.02
you sure you want to swim against us "Navy is better"? Because I KNOW FOR A FACT the ball is in Navy's court...all your coach needs to do is agree to the meet.

To answer your question, I love South Dakota. There is a ton to do out there – if you like camping, four wheeling, hunting, fishing, or basically anything you can do outdoors the Black Hills area is paradise. Come on out some day and I’ll show you a good time. Just make sure it’s at least a week or we wouldn’t have time to do everything. Now about your other comments…

That’s great that Navy has EOD and SEALS (who recruited this lowly AF grad by the way). Air Force has Combat Controllers and TAC-Ps, and every other service has their version of special ops. I happen to know of two AF swimming grads, one who is a Combat Controller and one who just graduated from Army Ranger school just days ago. Don’t go trying to make Navy look more “macho” than Air Force. I’m just glad I don’t have to spend months at a time on a boat.
Yes, Adam Meyer beat me at Trials in the 200 IM by 2 tenths. He is an incredible swimmer and I’m looking forward to seeing how much faster he can get. What he is doing is not only good for Navy, but good for Service Academy swimming in general. As far as my performance goes, I have no regrets. I dropped over 4 seconds in the 200 IM in a little over a year. I enjoyed being able to race Adam, and I hope that in two years Navy has a World Class Athlete Program similar to Air Force’s so he can have the opportunity to continue his career like I did.
As far as an Air Force-Navy meet goes, the last time the two teams met was in 2003 when I was a freshman. AF came in and sunk Navy in their very own pool. For whatever reason – and I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt that there may be a legitimate one – Navy has not come to Air Force to compete against us since then. I’d love to see you Middies come gasp for air at our pool.
Thanks to Floswimming for the great coverage. Like I said, it’s good for the world to see that the service academies have swim teams that are fighting every day to compete with the best in the country. And I do agree with “Navy’s Better” on one thing – you should make your way out to Annapolis too.

If the navy swim coach would say yes to a head to head swim meet with the USAFA team, I truly believe that USAFA would meet the challenge without delay (forget the swimmage, make it a full fledged dual meet). The navy team repeatedly refuses to compete against the USAFA swim team, why is that?- (At least Army swim coach has the confidence in his team to swim against USAFA)-All you can go on are the times on paper over the season. Check that out and you will see that USAFA is a much stronger team overall. I guess that I just answered the question why navy won't swim; they know they will lose because they are not as strong. Feel free to pass this along to your buddies on the naval academy swim team.

no worries i'm sure if we didnt have the option to go SEALS or EOD we would all go pilot too and real pilots fly off carriers anyway. how does paul parmenter like south dakota? i hear the weather there is real nice this time of year. after your meet against that horrible team in new york you guys should stop in here for a scrimmage.

100% of the AF swim team graduates last year went off to pilot training. For you navy boys that means their desks go 400 mph upside down.

Great coverage. It may not have been alot about swimming, but it sure gets one excited about the prospect of being part of a swim team at the Air Force Academy.......Pretty cool to have Navy fans want equal time!

if navy's so good, why dont they ever agree to race AF? just a question...pose it to the coach

Too bad top gun was navy pilots and not some air force desk jockeys, why don't you come to navy floswimming? come check out adam meyer top 20 in 2 events at trials (beat an air force grad in the 200 im)...just an idea.

What a great experience. Awesome.

Gotta love the Top Gun clip.......