Lake Oswego Lactate Set

I'd love to read what was said. Was it done tactfully as if Bowman was saying that he doesnt agree that it is in the best interest of the swimmers or USA swimming to be training these swimmers in this fashion or did he actually trash him?

Basically Bowman will be a jerk if he wants to. He has the total support of USA Swimming. It's too bad guys like Mark Schubert actually let one USA coach talk trash about another (in this case, Coley) -- in front of a group of National Team coaches. I thought the USA's strength was the variety of training the coaches use?

Doesn't the LASO coaches methods parallel that of Salo?

heard this as well. Think Bob was talking with regards to the aerobic base arguement (vs speed at age group ages) and how this type of training is not going to help the future of US Swimming.

Not sure I agree with Bob either.

Can you give anymore specifics as to what Bowman said?

I heard Bob Bowman used Lake Oswego as an example of what not to do at the Us National team coach's meeting a few months ago. Took the whole talk to tell everyone how useless Coley's training is.

Not sure I agree with him tho.

nice jaammmers.... man up.

God forbid kids use equipment! You'd hate to see an interesting practice for a change! I'd say this coach is doing something right as I've seen his kids and they are insanely fast (and small).

Sounds like your swimming for 4 years has been a waste of time. Keep doing the same thing you've been doing and don't watch vids like these.

this work out seems like a waste of time...there not even learning anything from this except for a little bit of sprint speed which with those fins wont really benifit

also i cant believe that these kids have so much equipment i been swimming for 4 years on my team and i never once had paddles

wow thill kids stop being jelouse...lol we know your good too but stop ing bout it

no hes actually very fast and doesnt scream at our faces at all

coley is very nice actually, if your not his swimmer you shouldnt be judging. he can get mad but every coach can.

I've seen Coley's kids at a few meets (Jr's/ Grand Prix/Trials) and they are little (in terms of height) and very fast.

He is doing a great job given the talent pool he has.

Mac - are you jealous?

Don't be so greedy, this is great coverage they're providing us with.

I've seen that Lake Oswego is a respectable team, but can we stop filming them for a while and try some other team?

I think all you litttle kids should go to bed and quit gumming up the page

hahahaha (not) hahahah we're in third grade

Come on man, I don't really respect the personal attacks.
I never, ever bragged about my swimming poweress and it just shows the kind of class you have. Also I actually do know quite a bit about swimming, but I have just talked about issues that I find alarming to some respect, I have not put down anyone or slandered LOSC, if I have in your point of view than I apologize. But again the subject of me and my swimming capabilities are not the point of conversation on this video and I never said I was better than any LO swimmer, to ridicule me just shows how much of a better person than you are compared to me (not).

At least he uses his real name and isn't afraid to voice his opinions. And at least he doesn't hide behind anonymity and take cheap shots at people he knows nothing about. Its people like you that add absolutely nothing to this site. If your such a fountain of knowledge and Gods gift to the sport, why don't you grow up and act like an adult?

I've seen Coley on deck, and he seriously scares me when he's not happy about a race. I guess some would call it passionate, but in my pov he gets downright mean.

Yes, I am condeming him cuz his swimmers talk about nutrition. Hopefully one can get a chance to listen to them and maybe they'll understand what I mean. I shouldn't have brought this up because it's impossible to explain, so this is the end of that :D
What I'm trying to say is. Coley has produced great sprinters, that's true, but he's no God and he has his faults like everyone. There are downsides to every story, and I think people should know. And this obviously doesn't work out for everyone.

Actually not true, we sent just as many swimmers to trials as LOCs did, one even making the final, we had more people at Sr. Sections and Jrs. But LOSC does hold more state records in the 11-12 age group, but if you look at the 15-16/17-18/open records THSC can claim homage to most of those. Let's make it clear, both LOSC and THSc are great teams, I am not bashing on LOSC, but I just don't want the Floswimmers's to get the wrong idea. And on top of that THSC does'tn really have that good of a faculty, it is a 50M true, but we have to share it with a public pool district hwo must make room for water polo/synchro/masters/lessons/open swimmers.

they arent GREAT at anything above a 500 typically because they all think its boring to swim that far with no high speed and intensity, but if they trained to swim anything more because they actually WANTED to swim it they would kick butt in that too.

Not sure what the dropout rate is but these kids look like they're having fun to me. I've met Coley on several occassions and find him to be cordial and passionate about what he does. I wish more coaches would care about their kids' performance like he does rather than sittig in their chairs at meets and falling asleep. I know he holds them to very high expectations, and it's hard to fault a coach for that.

Are you really condeming this coach b/c his kids talk a lot about nutrition? God forbid!
Hard to burn a kid out going 3k per day, most of which is dryland.
Sounds like some jealousy here.

They should include the dropout rate of the team as well.
Coley is not very nice...
How would anyone like the coach screaming in your face just because you don't improve? I mean you're trying hard, but you are at a slump, and he's furious because you don't swim faster. And it's partially his fault for burning some of them out at such a young age... his swimmers talk about nutrition so much it's freaky. Their technique is unbelievable, so bad but so fast.

But they are fast... don't see many of them doing the mile though. pretty good up to the 400/500s.

at least they're arguing about the team in the video.... unalike the RMSC fanboys on the Blue Tide Video

Not sure this is a Thills vs LOSC debate, but one could argue that LOSC holds far more state/national records, sent more kids to Trials/Jr's/Srs, beat Thills at Jr's/Sr Sectionals, etc. You could also say that Thills has at least twice as many swimmers and has a MUCH better facility than LOSC.

I think the point is clear if we're going to debate these two teams.

nicely done todd

well said

I don't think the issue here is if LOSC is the 'best' team out there. They're not. There are definitely plenty of programs that have faster swimmers. The argument seems to be centering on if their style of training 'works'. While I may be defending them to a certain extent here, mainly because I'm sick of people coming on these forums and anonymously bashing every program who gets a video posted, I don't coach the same way Coley does. Our team definitely is NOT a mega-yardage program, but we do get the yardage in at what we feel is the appropriate times. That said, I'm not going to come on here and bash Coley just because he does things differently. Obviously his methods are working to a certain extent because there ARE swimmers on that team that excel outside of the 50 free, especially on the girl's side. We'll see how they fare down the road as they get older.

I don't think anyone has insinuated that THSC isn't a good team. I see some similarities in the two programs though. Not really in the style of training, but more so in the fact that the coaches of both teams have a method of coaching they believe strongly in, they execute that method in a well thought out manner, and they get their kids to believe in their style of training. Bottom line, that has to happen first before the results can show up no matter what your style of training is. Coley got his swimmers to buy into his philosophy and now they're swimming pretty fast.

Ok, can we just agree on something? T-Hills has some fast swimmers. LOSC has some fast swimmers. They are both pretty good teams. They apparently have different styles of training, but they both go fast.

I don't want to embarrass you or anyone else. just trying to prove a point.

why would i put my athlete's times up here when they are not just a little faster. they are much faster. ha but maybe not in the 50!
do you think LOSC is the only team with some fast kids?
it's just that some teams have fast kids in the other dozen or so events, and some kids can do it in the long course in those events too.
didn't THSC have a guy go 43 last year. and if I'm not mistaken they've got a guy who's 14 going 46+....maybe THSC has a good idea about what to do in training as well, although no one seems to recognize that.

No, their other races are legit. 52/1:51 in the backstrokes is haulin, a 14 year old going 59 100 breast is pretty amazing, and their girls seem to be pretty legit too. I was simply replying to the other AC who said their relay averaged 1:45.

I guess you guys are going to keep ignoring LOSC's success in races other than the boys 200 free.

Yes, but if you take out your 200 in 1-1.5 secs over your 50 time (23.0-24.4 for LOSC's guys), you can hold 27s for the last 150 and go a 1:45. People with that much speed should really be in the 1:42-sub 1:40 range

"four kids went 145s at sr sectionals
they just dont swim it in the individual because they dont like the event."

sprinters, heh.

Everyone needs to get off of the whole thing about LOSC's boys freestyle times. Look at some other events. They have some stud girls that can do more than just a 50 free. Like a 14 yr old going 55/1:59 in the backs, another girl going 1:02/2:14 in the breast, another that is 1:03/2:20(that 200 isn't quite as good, but this girl really is a sprinter period), a 55 flyer, three girls under 2:10 in the 200 IM(one of them is 13, the fastest is 2:03).

It's true their boys aren't quite as impressive as the girls, but there is talent there. A 14 yr old boy going 59 in the 100 breast is pretty good, and there is a boy who is 52/1:51 in the backs. I know those back times aren't anything off the charts, but they are still very good, and the 200 time shows this guy isn't just a sprinter when you compare it to his 100 time. There are some other nice times as well, but their boys just aren't as good as the girls, yet. Bottom line is they are getting results they are happy with(and pretty much any team in the nation with 100 swimmers would KILL for these results). But because they do things differently than alot of teams out there people just want to look at the things they don't do well. Every team has things they don't do well, especially when there are only 100 swimmers.

My team has no one under 22 in the 50 but my friend and I both go 1:41 low and 2 more guys go under 1:44, only one is a senior

with that many guys under 22 its pretty sad to not even go under 47

well a small team with that much 50 speed is good
but at least one guy should go a 46 or a 1:42 or better

like we have five solid senior guys including me
4 of us going 21's
2 of us going 46's
3 of us going 1:42's and one 1:39
sprint freestyle isn't just a 50 free

oops
meant to quote this on previous comment

four kids went 145s at sr sectionals
they just dont swim it in the individual because they dont like the event.

their relay team at senior sectionals averaged 1:45. That is 4 guys right there not including the B relay that averaged 1:47...

their relay team at senior sectionals averaged 1:45. That is 4 guys right there not including the B relay that averaged 1:47...

ok so everyones complaining that being able to do the 500 and the 100 isnt enough, but all we're talking about is freestyle. if you can do a solid 50 and 100 of every stroke, ur pretty set. and if you can hold on for a 200 of every stroke, then you're a very diverse swimmer. you dont need to have a good 500, 1000, and mile to be a good swimmer

I give LOSC props for being such a small team and still being fast in the 50. However, having 6 guys under 22 and no one under 1:47 is pretty ridiculous. They have no endurance at all if they have that much speed in the 50 but are that slow in the 200.

6 NAG records in 3 different age groups in one year, 12-14 year old's going to trials (one in the 200 IM), 100 kids on the team, and they are overrated?

laughable. Tell us how your team compares.

If you're a small-timer, then lots of 21 is great. But by itself, being a 21 50 freestyler aint that good unless you're a girl.

I think the depth of the 50 is impressive, but much less impressive when you see that there's no one with an individual 200 under 147! And no one under 47 in the 100!
There are guys in Oregon that go 140 low, all over the state!
Superoverrated team if it aint the 50....sorry it's just the way it is for me

6 is the new 9? How did 6 guys under 22.0 become 9? 2 phantom high school swimmers, still only gets you to 8. How is that "skill set" in an adolescent desirable.
This speed is not translating to speed in other races.
Imagine a program that only catered to the mile swimmer. Had 8 guys under 16:30 in the 1650, and nobody under 4:40 in the 500, and nobody under 1:47 in the 200. What would you say about that? Is that good coaching, or an example of a coach limiting the potential of athletes.

name 3 club teams in the US that have 9 guys (17 and under) that go 21.9 or faster in the 50 free!!?!? This club has like 100 kids on it. That is unreal.

dude, 147 is the old 1:50 point. let's not get all by impressed by so-so swimming. 21 isn't that fast either really. That's like 22+ three years ago. None of these guys that go 21 are nationally ranked with their 21. 21s are a dime a dozen, sorry if that's your best event it's only pretty good. gotta have some other events that are fast to be fast.

8 21s and nobody going 46? HELLLLLOO! that's terrible to me, sorry to hurt feelings

wow. i didn't realize that they had that kind of 200 speed. where is the results link for that meet?

At sr sectionals the LOSC at relay went a 7:01
so they all split like 1:45ish
while this isnt GREAT, its pretty good for a bunch of kids who dont really swim the 200 free

and the B relay went like 7:10
which is like 147s
I'd say 8 guys, basically 16 and under, going 147 or lower is pretty good

I wish you would of given some of their individual times and showed us some of the swimmers, because I know them :)

the set seems cool, Coley is great at making swimmers that are fast though his innovative and interesting teaching techniques.

So when you are dealing with an age group where one kid could be 5'6 and the next lane a kid could be 6'4 you are going strictly off who made the top 25? I would look at the Motivational times put out by USA Swimming. Wait until they are 18, taller/stronger/smarter.

is it established? ive never noticed any trend like that.

yeah but LOSC has one guy in the top 25 for the 200 compared to 8 guys in the top 25 for the 50. so it doesn't look like they're throwing together any sort of 200

Take a look around at elite 50 swimmers. 90% of them can still throw together a 200 that will be pretty impressive on paper. It might look like trash, but speed is speed.

Stop saying VELOCITY.. like a professional or something.. we're swimmers.. stick with SPEED!

actually, they have 2 other sub 22's that swam HS and aren't on that list.

pretty good when you have 9 guys under 22 in HS or younger on a small team such as this.

great. they can swim the 50. too bad there's no 25 event in college. seriously, though, i think it's pretty much established that swimmers swim shorter races in college than they did on their clubs so where are these guys gonna go with no real 200 level speed, even at age 14?

wow, fast kids i guess

http://www.oregonswimming.org/timesdb/?season=0809&gender=m&agegroup=all&distance=50&course=y&stroke=1

not that much of an exaggeration it appears...

i dont believe that one group of guys are all in the 21.0-21.9 range...i think thats a little exaggerated

true, but keeping them interested is the best way to keep them working hard for a long period of time.

Very well said. Shut up y'all playa haters.

if the swimmer doesn't have the ability to work hard at something for a long period of time to gain success, they don't deserve it...

Even if you don't agree with Coley's entire approach to coaching there is still a ton of great information and tips you can get from these videos featuring LOSC. All of the arguments about the validity of his ideas, or if there are better teams out there, etc. is pointless. Bottom line is he believes these ideas, has implemented them in a well thought out manner, and is getting some great results.

Even if you don't plan on coaching swimming the same way that Coley does you can take parts of what he talks about when drawing up the training plan for your swimmers. His ideas obviously have some measure of benefit, even if all you are looking to do is a bit of speed work for your distance swimmers(which is necessary from time to time), or are looking for some technique tips. At a minimum these videos are a great example of the benefit of sticking to what you believe, and getting your swimmers to believe that what you're doing will work. That's a great lesson to learn even if your philosophy on training is the polar opposite of Coley's.

well said ben. i totally agree

Typical critisism. Too much mindless yardage, too much sprint work, the kids in the video have bad form, my team is better, I'm a level 5 coach and you're not, boring set, show a "real team", bla, bla, bla...It's hard to get respect on Floswimmer. I've seen Coley's swimmers in action up at KCAC in Federal Way. Not a lot of physical size (height or obvious muscle size) in his squad...just fast and well coached. He's building his program and willing to share his thoughts and ideas. Nice guy, fast kids and gutsy enough to do it his way.

It's tough. We can't spend money trying to get to these different programs, so I have to make the most of a trip when I get the chance. We're not charging anyone subscription fees so in order to keep the content free and available we have to find different ways of getting to new programs. I've said it before, if you want your team covered there are a lot of ways to make that happen. I'm doing my best to mix it up with the content I have, and trying to get as much fresh stuff as possible. Look for an exclusive interview with Brett Hawke talking about his swimmer Freddy Bousquet. And hopefully Freddy will be on here within the week as well.
But enjoy this stuff from Lake Oswego, each video is packed with tips and a variety of unique approaches. Each video brings something new to the conversation.

the variety of stuff shown has been good. I've certainly picked up alot of information that i can bring back to my club just by watching the Lake Oswego series.

is this lakeoswegoswimclub.com now? they are doing some great things over there, but the best thing about this site has been the variety... where has it been the last couple of weeks?

ahh rockin the jamjam's (aka jammers) i see ... not a fan of that

i'm impressed. 8 boys going 21 is pretty good. More than my team has...

Am I the only one who isn't very impressed by this?

Being fast at the 50, 100, and 200 is NOT what makes someone a sought after recruit...its what makes you a run of the mill recruit. The example in comment #11 is a good one. There will be at least 200 girls alone who will be recruits in the next couple years, and that is not even counting girls not at that meet or are already in college with those times.

Junk...what a great term. That is what my 6 & 4 year olds call theirs. And their docs now give me junk updates at their yearly checkups. Beautiful.

... the only reason people wear them in practice is because they're scared of being around people with their junk sitting there

These kids are training to go fast in the majority of events. Training sprints will help their 50, 100, 200, and possibly the 400 (threshold), 100 strokes, 200IM, 400/800 relays. All that's left is the 800/1500, 200 strokes and 400IM...seems like it makes sense...

What events make you the most sought after recruit? The 50, 100 & 200 free. You not only have those events individually, but you can cover all of the relays as well. If I was training a group of kids right now that is what I would concentrate on if they showed potential in it. I would not do it exclusively, but my guess is this coach is not either.

why there were over 300 entries for the girls 100 free at Jrs this year, clubs like this one that cater to the most entry level events probably because he doesn't want to lose swimmers to the work load it takes to be a great mid-distance to distance swimmer (strokes or free)

I agree not cool, drag suit or brief all the way!
Why are people hatin' on this team for training for sprints? That like commenting on a MVN video and saying "Yeah, that's why they all suck at the 50 and all they can swim well is the mile." This is how you train to go fast in sprints, and it's working for them.

what's the deal with kids wearing jammers in practice these days?

No, this is why his kids are fast at 50, 100 and 200.
If you work on something special, and train for a specific event, it makes no point to do anything else.

The "toys" cords and parachutes, are important tools in the build up of speed. We use the chutes in brestroke kick sets in the same way as they are using them here, and it works wonders finishing of with a 50 all out breastsroke.
Nice set this, I'll try it one day and see if my swimmers like it.
njolly - Yea I guess you are right. This is important.

Looks fun. Trying it today

Not too bad, still like 6 x 75 @ 5:00 though.

These kids get after it!!! 8 high school guys at 21 or better? Looks like Coley is getting positive results from these kinds of sets.

thats a good set but should not be done with a middle school group- early high school group, needs to be done with a senior group. and with this type of set, a key component is having good technique all the way through, where judging by the looks of these kids strokes, they dont.

I know many coaches LOVE the cords and parachutes (or derivatives) but have you ever really watched the swimmers when using these? The arms are moving and the body is almost stationary (esp. with the cords). Exactly the opposite of what you want. The hands should not move and the body should move past the hands. Seems to be teaching the wrong thing here.

Keep them interested i guess instead of adding to the dropout rate.

And this is why his kids can't do anything above a 200...