BlueSeventy's Response to FINA's Ruling : Speakers & Interviews

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Is the blueseventy jammer banned then?

the lzr wasnt banned because most of the suit is woven and probably traps little to no air

i actually am glad they banned the B70 its totally a cheater suit. i think the lzr should have been banned with it though.

I just wrote about the FINA swimsuit issue again: http://www.fromthemom.com/?p=676

I have swam with these suits, and if you watch the video, it says quite clearly that buoyancy is not, and never was, the issue. It's trapping air.

I don't know if you have tried swimming with the lzr and the blue seventy but the blue seventy is much more buoyant. they should have banned them when they first came out, no the lzr should/will not be banned

is ths new arena suit banned? will the lzr be banned?

its not that everyone is that mad the blueseventy was banned. its that the lzr wasn't banned with it. and they let it last so long if they were going to ban it, they shouldve banned it when it first came out and not waited for everyone to buy them

You'll find out on May 30th, or whenever USA swimming decides to make their ruling.

so i bought a nero comp for my high school state meet in February...am i allowed to wear it anymore at USA meets? Someone please answer this?

at this point, who cares? it doesn't matter - the suits were let in and a whole slew of ridiculous times were thrown down! now....it's back to the way it was pre-suits - - you still need to WORK, WORK, WORK to continue to drop time. let's let 'em all in at this point and now step up the creative training to keep the times dropping.

the whole issue with suits is that not everyone feels the benefits of them in equal measure. its a naive attitude to say that they dont make a difference, ive seen, firsthand, the differences some suits can make. ive watched swimmers who arent doing anything new or different in their training, and yet theyre taking chunks off theyre times. a suit might not make a bad swimmer good but its certainly going to make him look a lot better.

The testing did not prove it wasn't buoyant. The testing proved it fit within certain established buoyancy parameters. Which is exactly what your "trained professional scientists" would tell you. But whatever, let's just go back to pros and get rid of all the rubber.

The sound is not good, why not include the text of the interview?

Don't throw those B70s away just yet. A little movement on the issue - http://www.swimnews.com/News/view/6885

If bluseventy is simply and purely superior to Speedo than FINA should acknoledge as much and allow EVERY swimmer to be put in a blueseventy to compete it - if they choose. Quit trying to keep the Lazr the top suit if, in fact, it is not. Quit trying to tamp down the sport. Again, if blueseventy is superior a technology than FINA needs to quit pandering to Speedo and step it up and allow fair competition with swimmers being ALLOWED and encouraged to wear the fastest suit - blueseventy included.

its not necessarily about if the suits should be there or not this is about why Speedo and Not B70 being on the list???

honestly the suits do make a difference. I am a competitive swimmer who has worn both the blue seventy nero comp and the lzr racer. In the blue seventy i feel much more buoyant, and i feel they should be illegal because i had an advantage over other swimmers in state wide competitions.

try proofreading next time "sport". and while your at it, try doing some research, or getting some personal knowledge of the issue. You obviously don't know anything about hard work or you would know that the suit is a minor part of how much your swimming improves.

amen

I meant - it Was the suit.

Hate to break it to you there sport - but it WAS the sport.

But keep your nose to the grindstone and your head in the sand.

a feeling of bouyancy and something actually floating are two entirely different things. all these people who are saying that they "know" blue70s float because they can tell from the "feeling" cannot really be serious. there have been scientific tests done in a controlled environment whihc have established that the suits do not float. they do not aid buoyancy, regardless of what some of you self-declaring experts might say. so maybe, just maybe, what people are "feeling" isnt flotation but rather some other sensation brought on by the low drag of the suit which allows them to travel through the water a lot more efficiently. or maybe all these "feelings" that people are having are in fact more capable of testing a suit than trained professional scientists....idiots....

I got a LZR for free by mistake at SC Nats in Atlanta in December. I've worn it once. I dropped 2 seconds in my 2free. That was not from the suit. It was from busting my ass twice a day for 6 months. You guys need to stop blaming fast swimming on suits and stop using it to rationalize why you aren't good enough. They might help, but they don't make a mediocre swimmer great, or a bad swimmer good. How talented you are, and more importantly, how much pain your willing to put yourself through, determines that. I won't be wearing a LZR again, because I don't need it. Maybe some of you should do the same. Peace

ok since your suit was faulty and too big for you, you really are not a good source of information on this topic. and yes it is buoyant--the difference in drag reduction between the b70 and the lzr is negligible. the explosion in this whole suit mess happened when suit makers realized how much more important buoyancy and compression were than drag reduction

The LZR was made with FINA breathing down speedos neck the entire way. They put just enough LZR panels to where the suit doesen't increase bouyancy ridiculousily but still improves body position and reduces drag. (Yes I've worn one) The TYR titan was only banned due to its multiple layers. Wearing that suit would be no different than wearing a LZR over a B70.(layering suits has been illegal for about a year). Although I dont agree with banning the B70 and not the LZR, the B70 had too much rubber to make the cut. You can put a frikin brick on the suit and it will still float. They should just ban all of them really save us a lot of hassle and a lot of money!

If any of the suits are buoyant this should be evident in the lab results. Apparently the B70 passed the test, therefore it is not buoyant. Scientific tests trump what the suit "feels like," in my opinion.

The B70 is not buoyant, it just feels like it because it is very efficient in reducing drag. Since when has drag reduction been outside of the rules? That's exactly what each successive generation of suits has always done. The air-trapping claim is dubious. The first B70 I ever wore was too big and water sloshed around inside the suit. Definitely not a comfortable feeling and hardly advantageous. How about developing a perforated non-permeable material that would be durable, affordable, fast, and incapable of trapping air?

hahah..love the comment burn those lazers...if we told people to burn a dress or shoes worth $600 they would think we were stark raving made..but a speedo race suit no worries..because we all HATE speedos GUTS right now....pity we cant all do the burning in one place....hahaha..like people do in politics..ha

B70s are buoyant fa sho. I love the fact that they came in and made a faster, more durable, less expensive product than speedo, but the fact is, they are buoyant. Which means they are illegal. Should the LZR be illegal too? Absolutely. Will it be? Most likely not, that remains to be seen.

to do that would admit Fina is wrong. Just because people swim higher or think they do does not mean it is from bouyancy - you have to factor in drag which is what the B70 does best - This is simply about getting rid of the competition. B70 passed the testing but failed the "maybe" test and now FINA has closed up shop and does not respond. KACHING!!! for speedo. Shame on FINA and Speedo! Burn those Lazers they're inferior anyway.

Every swimmer I've talked to who has worn a B70 (I've probably talked to about 15) says that they feel way higher up in the water with it on. The B70 is buoyant, there's no doubt about that. The problem is, why was the B70 banned, but not the LZR?! I do not believe that either suit should be legal, but if FINA banned the B70, the LZR had best be illegal after Dec 31 09.

Someone has made a huge error......huge error for our swimming community. Yes, keep your BlueSeventy Suits and let's see what our collective swimming community pressure can do to clear this up! Passing criteria must be more than someone's opinion.....Let's have FINA publish these so called criteria for all of us to critique.

Every suit made since 1976 traps some amount of air, either in the suit, but usually on the surface. Go back and look at underwater footage and you will see this is true. If the rule has to do with flotation, then their needs to be a degree permitted and all suits must meet this standard. The fabric used in the blueseventy and the jaked suits have been tested extensively and shown to not float on its own. It is an incredible fast surface, meaning low drag, and it does allow for a hydro planing effect when in motion(no different than the LZR and Arena's suit 20 years ago). They are fast and people are smashing records worldwide. Not because the suits float. Is body position different, yes! This is because the characteristics I just mentioned, not because their is flotation.

We tell swimmers to swim in their suit before they get up to race so the suit sticks to the body and does not allow water into the suit upon entry. If air gets into the suit and "trapped" certainly water will do the same things (this is not preferred by swimmers).
The lesson we should be teaching our athletes and children alike is that if someone beats you in a race, performance, business, etc. you need to find another way to regain your championship form. Work harder, develop a new technology, recommit yourself to excellence. What ever you do, do not pay or strong arm an international organization to cut the feet out from under every single brand that is kicking your butt in the pool.
It is difficult to have any respect or willingness to follow such a corrupt organization.
Going back to swimming in briefs will set the sport back 40 years. People love to swim fast and see fast swimming. If the suits to do not float, don't fix it. Society loves to see a golfer drive the ball 20 yards further or watch a baseball player hit more home runs. Technology is part of our every day life and it has put swimming in a better position than it has ever been. Most coaches on the deck use cell phones and lap tops, but some want us to swim in products from 40 years ago. Really?
Maintain integrity in the sport, allow technology and for the love of the sport, put people in charge that care about the future and development of the sport we love more than shoving cash in their own pockets. If they were truly great at what they did you wouldn't need to be paid off.
We are allowing track start inserts on starting blocks but we cannot swim in a blueseventy or a jaked suit. Let me guess, the manufacturers of these block sponsor FINA.
Make rules that promote the sport, allow for technology and communicate with the sphere you serve.

i think everyone should hold onto their blueseventy and jaked suits cuz FINA definitely screwed alot of people and themselves too, but time will tell

My only beef with this whole thing is the following....(trying to take the cost of the suits out of the equation).

You watch interview after interview with coaches on this site when they talk about the B70 and other suits (LZR too) and they admit that the dang suit makes you float. There was one that I recall on the top of my head with KING where they even have suit day b/c they know the suits change your body positon by "floating" and they need to work on those new strokes. The rules clearly say no flotation devices. Test or not...coach after coach (myself include) and countless swimmers admit that they float and make them float better. That is just not working within the rules and integrity of our sport.

o and ya boycott speedo

wow speedo sucks so bad the reason why blueseventy is being band is bcuz its speedo number one rival recently screw speedo blueseventy for life

It is not a fact that the suits create buoyancy. This whole picture has been intentionally distorted by subjective rhetoric. As Karl Rove so effectively demonstrated, saying a lie over and over eventually makes it "true". Hmm, you think Speedo has him on their payroll too?

Wow, Thanks for all the positive feed back. It is a crazy time and we are working around the clock to get this solved quickly. (when I say around the clock.. I mean around the clock.. Steve & Co. in New Zealand, Dean & Co. in the UK and our USA group too).

We are getting a lot of support and it really has helped.. So, I wanted to just say THANK YOU to everyone! Have a safe and happy memorial weekend. And good luck to those of you swimming in blueseventy's at the JEI this weekend and of course other meets around the world!
And best of luck especially to the breaststrokers!! Ya know I love them the best!!
Roque

Whistle Blower
If what you're saying is true, then this situation stinks more than it does from our perspective out here in the states. I too could honestly care less what is legal and what is not, but for FINA to approve a suit, then turn around and ban it AFTER it has taken a hefty chunk of the market share is quite suspicious. And the fact that we still don't know what is exactly legal and what isn't could possibly be another tactic by the Speedo/FINA mafia attempting to create panic and make people go out and buy the only suit they know for a fact is legal...the LZR.

Others have mentioned it, Speedo is going to have to do a heck of a lot to dig itself out of this hole and gain the respect of swimmers again.

Oh will everyone stop crying about the swim suits, and just get back to swimming. What do you want next ... to be allowed to put an outboard motor on the back of suits and think that its the talent of the swimmer. Which part does everyone not understand? The rules say "no devices that create buoyancy" ... the suits create additional buoyancy ... that's the facts. Get over it, and just start swimming.

Maybe if everyone manned up and just stuck with lycra speedos like I do this wouldn't be an issue. The real men race in briefs. http://www.briefz4Life.org

and what about all the money it ( speedo )had to give world record breakers for wearing their suit when they broke the records as part of their incentive contracts..and for most of these swimmers the suits were given free...let alone what they pay phelps and his coach, couglin, hoff, lochte, Trickett, Sullivan and his coach stoelwinder, head coaches like shubert and thompson, other loudhailers like talbot and leonard...and I am sure others could add more to the list..

Speedo has invested huge sums of money in the success of the LZR and finds itself alone on an island with its white elephant. Did they bet the farm on this strategy? Speedo reportedly lost $38 million last year. It looks like they invested too heavily in a complex, expensive, and impractical suit technology, and now are doing everything possible to distort the marketplace so their inferior product can survive. If the LZR was a viable product on its own merits, Speedo/FINA wouldn't have to tilt the playing field with its erratic rulings to drive the competition out of the market. Maybe the LZR doesn't deserve to survive. It is disastrous for the LZR to be the only suit left standing by the FINA ruling. I, for one, don't want to be forced into that kind of choice. Judging from their recent choices and behavior, maybe Speedo doesn't deserve to survive either.

YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Aussie Whistle Blower
Thank you for speaking out. I think the actions you describe are just the tip of the iceberg. Back in the early 80's my coach was paid $70k/year by Speedo. Who knows what Speedo is paying its coaches now? We deserve to know who is on their payroll and what roll these coaches played in the FINA fiasco. We need to demand full financial disclosure and transparency.

Where to begin. You're a moron for starters. Blue seventy has every incentive to enter the pool market. They already have experience with swim suits and they created one that because extremely lucrative and popular in a very short amount of time. Contains any non-permeable material? Take a look at any single one of the latest suits. Have you worn or looked at a lzr? It contains just as non permeable material as the blue seventy in the patches all over the suit. Someone is bitter they were beat by a blue seventy owner.

Whistle blower
I am an Australian Coach with swimmers at both junior and senior nationals level.
I personally really don’t care which suits my athletes wear provided they are happy.
Those of us without our head in the sand have watched this Blueseventy sage unfold from months and months ago. I have been reading and watching the blogs mentioned below . The scaq article a week or so back on “fiddling” really pricked my conscious and finally I cannot keep quiet - You just don’t know the half of it.
This whole plot was hatched last year.
By December 2008 Blueseventy was developing real acceptance and at the Qld Sate champs maybe 2/3 of the finalists were in these suits. The suit was seen as fast as the LZR but the popularity at age level was because the suit cost less, lasted longer, was reliable and easily available ! My parents loved it. National Head Coach Allan Thompson unusually was on deck for this week. He was quite open in going around telling coaches and swimmers that the blueseventy suit was to be banned. By the end of the week the SAL board had been assembled at the venue and within a day of the meets finish he was quite correct . They passed a ruling banning the use of zips in all suits for all age groups 18 &U;. This effectively took Blueseventy brand and its only suits right out of the volume aussie age group market in one foul swoop. The reasons they gave were without any real foundation and incredibly transparent. Few bought into it , we all knew what had gone down.
However the Blueseventy suit still continued to gain momentum with senior national level swimmers especially because of support. However during this time Mr Thompson was contacting us and talking about trapping of air in suits. The comment amongst coaches was he is “rallying support” but we didn’t quite understand for what.
So came the Dubai Charter and then came our Champs and World Trials in March.
On the second day of the trials swimmers in blueseventy won three events in a row in National and two Commonwealth records. Huge media exposure - it was the talking point on the deck.
The next day Speedo and Thompson swung into action.
At scheduled and impromptu coaches meetings he made it quite clear that the blueseventy suit was to be banned for Rome and coaches and athletes needed to wary. We just watched as coaches and swimmers abandoned the suits and medallists that didn’t were told to roll their suits down before fronting the media. That week he was really focused and he kept plugging away at the suit and air trapping .
In retrospect he already knew what the Fina outcome was to be back then ?
This must have been orchestrated months and months ago when they had to get the right presence on the Fina boards and to think we supported and voted him in there!
They knew the suit would pass the tests so they created a test of opinion it couldn’t pass.
Do i think Fina were complicit, actually no, I think they were totally hoodwinked. See we have never seen a brand really challenge Speedo like this in its own domain of competitive swimming in 20 years , so some of us coaches think this was all set up from last year, to leave Speedo as last man standing. Actually we know it ! Over the years Speedo have had no real fear from TYR and Arena but in just 12 months Blueseventy changed that. They had to pull the Fina approval system down and the have it reassembled to suit them?
A few simple questions on the above will reveal and verify its integrity and accuracy. Even media reports show Thompsons outspoken support of Speedo and the LZR before and after nomination to the Fina suits committee and there’s more, much more ! Like asking only blueseventy representative athletes, to express in writing what sensation the suit gave them, such replies no doubt being edited and selectively tabled at the Fina meeting. And so on ...............
I wish i could reveal my name but to do so i will be vilified. Speedo and Thompson take no prisoners and it will have a direct affect on my family, club and swimmers not excluding the SAL controlled and nominated subsidies and grants we need to receive.
Relieved Aussie Coach
http://scaq.blogspot.com/ Subject: Re: Fwd: FINA and ALan Thompson - I do a post accusing Speedo of fiddling with the process Writer is Tony Austin
http://thewaterisopen.blogspot.com/
http://www.floswimming.org/videos/speaker/3661-steve-nicholls/180522-blueseventys-response-to-finas-ruling

Who cares if anyone can go and try on a LZR at Rome!!! if you read all of this speedo rep you will see the swimming world is over your monopoly and the way you set out to control everything...I cant believe how many poeople have said such hateful things about your brand below..it actually makes one speachless...how any of you want to be part of a company like speedo is beyond me...and I would not even like to be FINA or the officals of all the nations that are on speedo pay roll..cause you remind me of the Mafia..its actually quite sickening and insulting to the swimmers! look how hard they train and all the work they put in and then you have people like this ...its an insult to the sport of swimming really..but anyone who has been involved in the siwmming world for longer than 20 years..knows how everyone calls it the speedo game and it was only a matter of time before it all came to a head...I for one am not suprised by this because speedo fails the important people..the swimmers, coaches, clubs, retailers and the real support networkds constantly..the game is up speedo...and how you take away a brand perception like this and create postive equity is beyond me..because it would mean actually having respect...respect for the swimmers and the community of swimmers including other swimming brands who actually have real love for the sport of swimming and try make a contribution to swimming in a way that counts...ie giving back to the heart and sole of the swimming world.

IDK where I heard it, word of mouth I guess. OK, I apologize, apparently people can wear LZRs for free.

But that still doesn't mean they shouldn't be illegal.

Doesn't mean there aren't still Nike sponsored teams out there. The Nike Swift and Nike Hydra do still exist, so not being able to wear them is a problem.

nike discontinued their competitive swim suit line. you are very smart.

where did you hear that from i would like to know? at the olympics and the last world championships speedo had a room where any swimmer could come in and try out a suit for free. does that not mean they were 'wearing a free Speedo'. a similar arrangment will be present in Rome so any swimmer can choose to wear a LZR if they wish.

Grab your pitch forks and burn those bras! We got some protesting to do people!!!

The LZR will never be banned, and if Speedo doesn't want a high profile company such as Tyr taking serious legal action against them and FINA, my guess is the Tracer Rise is here to stay also.

Does anyone else wonder why there are no Nike suits on the approved list? Do they "trap air" too? And you can still race in practice suits, right?

Not many people will be wearing a free Speedo suit in Rome, I've heard that only 3 people in the world get them for free: Phelps, Lochte, and Hoff. Everyone else pays full price or gets a slight discount. $peedo will do anything to make a profit.

How about the Italians wearing the banned Jaked at their trials as a type of protest to FINA's ruling?

FINA said the times won't count, but the Italians are insisting that they wear the suit (if the swimmer so chooses) regardless of whether it is banned.
unreal.

and no one is going to buy a speedo knowing it may not be legal in january, and everyone at rome is going to be wearing a free speedo suit, so i would be suprised if speedo really makes any money here, the high end swim suit business is really going to be at a stand still until january, and then everyone is going to rush out and get a suit for their conference meet, and there will probably be a shortage

The LZR will most likely stay legal forever (evidence: $peedo in bed w/FINA). So when B70, TYR, Jaked, Nike, Mizuno, Asics, Descente, Arena, and everyone else comes out with comparable suits, everyone needs to just boycott $peedo.

The funny thing is speedo's suit is only guaranteed to be legal until december 31,2009, so basically they have Rome in the bag, but that is all, after december 31 the lzr may not be legal, even if it is blue seventy, jaked,tyr will all have comparable legal suits made by then anyway

All of you stupid swimmers have been complaining about the popped seams and shady craftsmanship of our LZRs, but what you failed to realize was, it is strategy...

strategy 1: popped seams and poor manufacturing adds holes to the suit which eliminate the trapping air
result 1: no worries about the "suit standards" that "FINA" makes up (or at least does a copy/paste from what we send them.
strategy 2: low grade materials and sweatshop labor make huge margins
result 2: we can own EVERYONE... swimming is a sport without the huge contracts of football or baseball, a little cash goes a long way in the world of competitive swimming.
strategy 3: low ball everyone, meet sponsorships, clubs, anyone who could use the revenue to promote the sport
result 3: we don't need to pay huge exclusivity rights to anyone, we just need to give them $1 more than anyone else will... which in swimming isn't much...
you're all a bunch of fools.. this is easier than being a real estate mogul in a third world country...
CA-CHING! Pay Up $UCKA$

FINA is obsurd and yes I do believe they are in bed with Speedo

Everyone that is complaning about having a $400 useless suit, you should have known it was gonna happen. Stop complaining. Step up and race in a regular suit. I hope all of you go out and buy a lzr and have the same thing happen to you in January. Fools.

Technical suits are so lame!!!!!! It's like buying how fast you can go. Not everyone can afford $400 suits. It makes the the sport way to competitive at to young of an age. Swimming needs to back to racing in just a plain brief

Congrats Speedo, you just went from the biggest and most trusted name in swimming to the personification of evil in about a hundredth of a second. Lets start a contest to guess how many pissed off people wont be buying Speedo products anymore. Buy Tyr!!!

Yea I feel the same way. I think some swimmers need to start voicing their opinions about what they feel and stand up for what they want, whatever that may be.

Wyatt, SWIMMERS need to speak out and take control of our sport. Why should we just bend over and take it? Because swimmers have never asserted themselves before? I go to a fair number of USMS and US meets, and I don't hear any swimmers complaining about the suits. We love them! Finally, there are affordable suits on the market that don't get waterlogged and are very durable, and Speedo is manipulating FINA to take them away, leaving us with no viable options. In my opinion, it makes no sense for a Masters swimmer to spend $550 on a flimsy LZR suit that lasts for 5 swims. I'll never buy one (or any other Speedo suit).

So - if I go out and buy a usesless $400 B70 now, I'll get $200 off the 2010 model. Wow thanks.

I am afraid it's not goiing to matter if FINA is going to roll us back to jammers and briefs.

Rather than start a rogue league how about first try to fix the federation we have?

I completely agree. I feel like right now the swimming world is ripe for revolution so to speak. Many countries, federations and coaches are upset right now over how FINA has handled this whole issue and if some highly respected and reputable people got together and formed a new league or world federation I think quite a few countries, suit companies and the like would at least open up communication channels with them. One of the biggest things that pisses me off about FINA is that none of them know jack about swimming, none of them were world class swimmers or coaches or have had any real first hand experience with the sport. All they are is a bunch of corrupt men who are trying to make as much money as possible. They dont really care about the integrity of the sport, only how much money is making it to their pockets.

Good Idea Wyatt Collins!

To add to your thought, how about all suit companies come together (minus speedo of course) and create some sort of unified "swim league", hold their own meets, have their own set of records (no one can complain about the old records anymore getting beat anymore), self regulate their suits, and either over throw FINA and speedo or get them to realize that their good ole boy thing they got going isn't helping the sport. and get back on the boat and play nice. Its funny in sports competition is the main thing, yet speedo will not compete with other companies. If i was a rich mofo I'd start my own swim federation right now, but i'm not so I can olny dream. And I know i am bashing speedo and FINA but if it walks like a duck and talks like a duck....... A happy thursday to all! godspeed!

There needs to be an independent investigation into FINA's back room dealings, I mean, suit approval process. The process was obviously rigged to protect Speedo's LZR while targeting it's formidable competitors. Enough with corporate corruption!

I posted this question up on another video but got no responses so I thought I would see what you guys would think of this. It would also be interesting to see what Garrett, Chris and even Steve think of this.

This may seem like an absurd question, but with all of the shady dealings going on with FINA and Speedo it started getting me thinking. Just how difficult would it be for some people go about creating a new "FINA" or new governing body for swimming. It just seems to me that this whole suit issue has created some deep divides in the swimming world and has and will continue to cause people to lose respect for both FINA and Speedo. I even read that Italy will still allow their athletes to wear Jaked's for their World Champ Trials and that Japan will ratify Irie's swim as a Japanese record despite the issue of the suits legality. That just seems to reinforce the idea that FINA is not trusted or respected by many coaches or swimmers and I feel like it would be difficult to maintain a working relationship between FINA and other federations in the future. Plus, the people who work at FINA practically know nothing of swimming, all they really care about is making money.

It's just inexcusable that a sport could cause this kind of self-inflicted wound. To allow swimmers to use suits in major worldwide competitions for over a year, then retroactively outlaw them is beyond the pale. Either the entire FINA Commission was asleep at the wheel, or they are incompetent. Swimming deserves better leadership. Before this is over, swimming will suffer it's first corporate scandal.

this is totally ridiculous that some fast suits have been banned while the LZR remains. its as though fina has just decided that Speedo deserves an entire monopoly on the fast suit market. the tyr titan the b70 and the fast Jaked have all failed to make the approved list. so if you want a fast suit to remain competitive then what choice are you left with other than the LZR? absolutely ridiculous. FINA has once again thrown the sport of swimming into chaos because of the weak and spineless people there who could not take a stand against speedos influence and instead of cleaning up the whole fast suit mess, they have allowed it to continue and made speedo the market leader once again. so once speedo started losing the battle for the fast suit market, up stepped fina to ban all competition and reinstate speedo as the fasteset suit. it appears that fascism is governing the sport of swimming. whatever happened to suits not being performance enhancing? that is exactly what the LZR was marketed as and its exactly what it has always been. a return to briefs would be a welcome break from this mess that has been ruining swimming for the past number of months

I should have said goggles not shoes - my bad - It's past my bedtime

B70 developed a good product - the Speedo LZR was the first being targeted as the suit to be banned and Speedo wisely did a bait and switch to the B70 so everyone would look the other way while they expertly banned the competition- I hope we all have our eyes wide open -No one else seemed to think it was suspicious when FINA adopted an extra rule at the last minute that was clearly meant to ban the B70 back in March? I told my son who had just purchased a B70 it was being targeted to be banned - he'll survive but we'll never buy another speedo mark my words - any peice of clothing or shoes - I have 4 swimmers so the B70 was a cheaper alternative- including one who is ranked nationally - adios speedo -

Does anyone remember this from the ASCA site posted by John Leonard?

"The Major Traditional Swimsuit partners of the world of swimming are happy to adjust their manufacturing to meet the FINA requirements with the caveat that an 18-24 month development cycle for new products will be heavily stressed with our initial phases. This is a hardship for them, financially and operationally. Also no doubt, some newer players in the market that I categorize as “in it for the fast buck”, will be done in by the new rules and will not be happy. And because they are in it for the quick buck and not for development of the sport longterm, they may well take their unhappiness to a court of law to try to find their “quick buck”. Shame on them if they do." [my emphasis]

It's here http://www.swimmingcoach.org/ (posted March 4). I thought this smelled at the time, and it smells even more now. Is this about creating a fair playing ground or punishing the upstarts? Huh, seems like the latter to me.

With the Japanese announcement regarding Ryosuke Irie's record, it's clear that this is far from over. Lots of others around the world will defy this ruling too. Who is FINA representing here anyway? The swimmers? The chaos has only just begun.

Make a Blu70 that sinks like a rock and I'll wear it. It's not about buoyancy; it's drag coefficient and that fact that it doesn't absorb water. Keep them legal!

Unbelievable! FINA knew which suits they would ban before they even tested them against their own set standards. This is getting ugly.

I can't believe FINA. The thing that upsets me the most is that FINA said that Nero was ok to race in, and now they say “Oh sorry, you can’t race in it.” Thanks to their screw up everyone who bought the Nero before April 1st spent almost $400 on a suit that is now useless. I unfortunately bought my Nero in January. In my opinion, all these suits have the same chance of creating “air bubbles” and BlueSeventy should take legal action against FINA. Speedo has way too much influence in these kinds of things.
BlueSeventy all the way!!!

blue - This is ridiculous - check out US swimming they say the suits are still legal until May 30th and then they will release a new statement

I agree with Destree. Air bubbles can happen to anybody in any suit.

Changing body position should be illegal. It keeps your hips up for you late in the race. Experienced athletes who train hard can keep their body position perfect for a whole race while less experienced swimmers cannot without a LZR to do it for them. Half the world records were set in LZR because 90% of fast people are sponsored by Speedo. I definitely agree that the blueseventy helps you float a ton, that should be illegal. blueseventy, however, is a great company and I'd like to see them come out with a fast, not buoyant, durable suit.

Hi All,

Thanks for the posts, nice to see such a proactive community both for and against.
To clear up a few points mentioned below:
1/ Our suit passed the buoyancy and thickness tests, it does not float, and is not a wetsuit.
2/ the materials in the jaked suit are (to my knowledge) not chloroprene like the our blueseventy nero suits or the TYR titan.
3/ We launched a buy back program 2-3 weeks ago I believe, where any suits bought between now and the end of the year we would buuy back at approx 50% of the purchase price applied as a credit on the 2010 FINA legal model.
4/ Interesting the comments re: pockets of air being the reason the suit is fast... one of the most popular strokes for our suit has been breaststroke, while I'll not admit to being a total swim geek and having intimate knowledge of breaststroke stroke mechanics, my discussions with athletes on product design has been that of all the strokes this is the one that has the most time underwater.... which would kind of mean that buoyancy assistance is not an advantage...thoughts....
If you have any other questions regarding the suits you would like answered please feel free to mail me:
, check our website, or our blog...

it sounds like the lzr wont pass the next set of fina tests, i guess this set of tests was primarily focused on air trapping, where ass the next test concerns something different, which is why they said the suits were only approved through 2009

this seems like all political b.s. to me

its terrible to see swimming governed by FINA like this

yeah youre right, changing body position is illegal...o wait no its not. And over half of the world records were set in LZR, so how again are these other suits faster? The Jaked, B70 and Titan are all made with primarily rubber material and traps in air, lzrs have holes in the groin to release trapped air and water, so therefore the air bubble and material make them float. Ive worn a blue70 and a lzr, going fast in both, including a NAG record in the blue70, so I'm not hating just telling the truth. You can definitely feel the suit and the trapped air helping you float with the blue or should I say buoy70.

i
"You idiots" say
if you've ever looked at a blue seventy, it's a full on wetsuit. Even if they pass this year, it'd only be good till the end of the year.

You are most likely some sponsored athlete from another brand you has never been allowed to put the suit on because if you knew anything about wetsuit or felt one or been in it and then got into the bluesventy nero you would not make such an ignorant comment...!!! put the suit on foryouself first.....thats the problem people who just make assumptions without doing a reality check...

it says below"
"The suit makers need to know exactly what is allowed and what isn't and this shouldn't be a moving target."

this is exactly the complication...the fact that it passsed all the set out tests on what was provided for it to be on the "list" and then suits that are made in the same factory and have less market share or have less of any impact on the swimming market have passed.
Peeople think its a debate about suits being banned or not..its about why was blueseventy singled out...why did they not get put on teh okay list when other suits which yes are competition to speedo but have not made the same impact. And actually other than TYR being big in america they are insignificant in most of the other swimming nations like Australia where blueseventy has taken a massive chunk of market share from speedo..why? not cause of the suit being better but because Blueseventy cares about swimmers and shows this by their people and not having the price of their race suits sky rocket as though they not available to everyone. I think this is the problem that blueseventy is getting subjected to unfair rulings because it is actually making a
"real difference in the swimming world", I mean who does not know Roque and his team at meets?? they will go out of their way to do anything for swimmers because swimming and the community of swimming is their life..so I think this goes alot deeper than just a suit issue!!!!

"question: if blueseventy resubmits its revised suit and gets approved, are the current nero comps still legal?"

no, becuase the nero wouldn't be approved, the revised nero would be approved.

question: if blueseventy resubmits its revised suit and gets approved, are the current nero comps still legal?

Check out the link and support BlueSeventy and others:

http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/athletesfirst/

This guy looks and sounds a lot like Bret from Flight of the Conchords.
Anyway... Who cares if Speedo gives a lot of money to Fina or does fantastic work in the swimming world? That doesn't change anything. The LZR should still be banned.

Speedo gives a lot of money to FINA through their fantastic work within the swim world, to Ban the LZR would be a slap in their face, they would never ban Speedo products, this is horse poo

"it changes body position"
That's why it should be banned. All of the suits that were as fast or faster than the LZR (not to mention less expensive) were banned. TYR Titan, Jaked J01, B70. The sayonara is for triathlons, not swimming. I don't think it is on the approved list.

You've never seen a blueseventy, have you?

why should the lzr be banned, it doesnt create buoyancy, it compresses and changes body position to make a swimmer more hydrodrynamic. And as for FINA and Speedo having a secret deal going on, there are over 100 non speedo suits approved including TYR suits (though the titan was banned, their new sayanaru isnt). If speedo wanted their competition out why would they leave one of their biggest competitors in.

yeah lets petition science we should try to petition resistance next, think how fast we could go without resistance.

Kirk nailed it: "they need to clearly state the rules and these rules must be testable. The suit makers need to know exactly what is allowed and what isn't and this shouldn't be a moving target."

That is the only way to do it. It is clear now that when the rules are hazy or subject to interpretation, everybody loses...well maybe not everybody.
This is our opportunity to tell FINA what we think. They are accountable to us, and we need to let them know that. There is a petition going around that went live earlier today, basically telling FINA to get itself straight. The link is below, if you agree with some or even part of it, sign it. Just picture a big fat petition getting dumped in their laps...who do you think they will listen to then?
http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/athletesfirst/

The LZR should be banned!!!!!!

they should ban all suits

yeah, I want to hear more about the buy back program...Is Blueseventy buying back their "banned" suits?

Blueseventy.

what company? please...indulge us more on the buy back program.

I'm glad to see that they have a buy back program in place. I can't imagine the number of mid Major, D2, D3, and NAIA schools that went with BlueSeventy because they could get multiple uses out of them and were cheaper. I applaud the company for have the foresight to have that in place.

BLUE SEVENTY ALL THE WAYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Sounds like they are very itnerested in staying int he game. Suppose we'll find out what exactly is going on in the next couple of days....

The FS pro was the start of a bad thing in swimming. It's disgusting that we have to worry about our competitions suits rather than the work we've put in the pool. I say ban them all!

if you've ever looked at a blue seventy, it's a full on wetsuit. Even if they pass this year, it'd only be good till the end of the year.

Why not? It was certainly lucrative for them for a while. They came out with a suit that FINA initially approved. Why did FINA approve the suit in the first place is the question.

FINA was more or less forced to enact a better testing protocol for suit approval and I do think they've made a step in the right direction. However, they need to clearly state the rules and these rules must be testable. The suit makers need to know exactly what is allowed and what isn't and this shouldn't be a moving target.

There was mention of suits of the same specification, material and even produced from the same factory as the Blue70 that passed Fina's assessment. Can anyone shed any light as to which these suits are?

Blue70 is an open water company. They should never have entered the pool market in the first place. The LZR opened the floodgates. The whole Blue70 concept is rubber/neoprene and has no place in competitive pool swimming. Too bad the LZR didn't get the boot as well, but I think Blue70 can modify their suits all they want, if it contains any non-permeable material, it should not get approved.

Wow from all the comments I have read on about 5 sites...speedo or fina have not bought themselves any love...I think if blueseventy can bring out a a suit at ANY stage that works and is fine...we will all wear and endorse blueseventy just because they are good for the world of swimming! They care about the swimmers and this is shown by that buy back scheme the dude above talk about! ....So I think if blueseventy can get through this...THEY WILL WIN and BECOME THE BEST BRAND...in the SWIMMING WOLRD!!!! GO BLUESEVENTY ...we are all behind YOU...stuff the coaches getting paid..stuff the fina bosses gettting paid and who knows maybe even the co called "neutral testers" have been asked to come up with the " subjective trapping of year" I know that papter suits and the lZR ( which is the reason why we wet it before we dive in Trap air"....so its tainted so badly the whole procedure its one fine joke..specially as Blueseventy was approved way back in 2007....!

come on guys. The reason that the blue70 is banned is because it's 100% non-permeable rubber.

my previous comment to speedo and fina being in bed together ( refer to the first post on this page )

And I apologize for the profanity, but this is just ridiculous

at the cif masters meet in california today they told the swimmers that if u swim in a B70 ur times wont count for usa swimming.

FINA is following the money. SPEEDO deals, FINA listens, and there goes b70. I am not a fan of the suits, but this is almost worse. Don't approve some and ban others... truly a sad day in swimming.

a F'n piece of shlit! Who the hell do they think they are doing this in the middle of championship season

i havent heard anything from usa swimming

ill say im sorry... but im not taking off my glasses

1. what is the LZR pro
2. can we wear b70s as regular usa swimming meets?
3. has USA swmming made a statement??

DEFF SPEEDO DID IT THE MEXICAN WAY!!!! (CORRUPT)

that's what i've been saying!

yo this is some b/s
1) Last summer i swam my first race in body suit ,a fastskin pro actually, brand new never been worn in the water. swam the 50 free in it. Right off the dive I got a air bubble in my chest, it just so happens i hit the water at the right angle. I think that everyone wearing a body suit in competetion or diving off the blocks has experenced this no matter what the company so I think this is really unfair to B70 to have been failed for that reason. Air can be caught in any body suit because the way the fabric around the neck line is cut and how big your bust/pecks are.

2) For real the jaked suit is like exactly the same as the b70 except it comes in colors and for that matter the TYR's are pretty similiar
3) From my expereince and ppl I have talked to are and have always been more conserend with the core stablizer in the TYR titian and LZR than the "bouncy" of the b70 and other suits
4) I do hope that this has not been a scandle in which speedo and other companies have paid off FINA officals to put an end to b70 because of its recent sucess which is in part due to its NERO Comp and that suits increased popularity. Speedo- I do hopw you know there is a thing such as the serman anti trust act and other laws prohibiting monopolies

Can we go back to the paper suit

Deep breaths... Urgh!!! So they were ok in '07, but not now?? What??? How does that work
And will the records set in them count? All the best times? They are really creating a sticky
Situation for themselves!

I'd like to know what this means for all the swimmers that bought blue seventy nero comps. Will swimmers be able to wear their blue seventy nero comps that they spent so much money ever again?

at least then everyone would stop complaining about unfair suits since everyones wearing the LZR

so...this means that you cant wear blueseventy in a FINA/USA Swimming meet as of right now...correct?

if it gets approved

so now we have to go by the blue70 to use it

blue70 held in all my fat

i like this guy...even with garret almost setting him up to whine about FINA's desicion and call foul (whether it was or not), he's very professional about it

BULL

We can lose all the respect in the World for Speedo. Unfortunately I have little faith that FINA/Speedo is going allow a superior company in B70 to find a way back into the game. By next summer we will have 1 option - Speedo.

My sport makes me sick.

THIS IS TOTAL UNFAIR BULL!

what happens to all the records broken by swimmers wearing these?

Still gonna buy them and the jaked thanks.

FINA asked coaches who are governing teams paid by Speedo......mmm impartial then?

everyone is losing respect for SPEEDO i believe that there is going to be a huge drop off of they amount of things they sell very soon because of this

people on speedos payroll where on the board that made these decisions! it doesnt take a rocket scientist to figure out whats going on. i am quickly losing respect for speedo.

OF COURSE Speedo and FINA are in bed together. Thats been the story all along....that are FINA is just too damn scared of speedo. Either way.
No matter...99% of people who knew anything about these suits knew B70 wasn't going to pass as it was currently on the market.

sounds fishy by FINA. Why would they leave these companies out to dry without an explanation and then just close shop for the night? Very unprofessional.

Its pretty clear what is going on here: Speedo and FINA are in bed together, good ole boys club.