Everyday is Suit Day! : Speakers & Interviews

What about suit deterioration? Seems like an easy way to shorten the racing life of your suit.

the beauty of the sport of swimming is that, in contrast to sports like gymnastics, diving, wrestling etc.. it is a purely objective sport. The developement of these new suits detracts more and more from its objective and pure nature and therefore should be halted.

i dont understand why he would only want them to wear the legs, and not pull the suit all the way up. the compression is what changes the body position. there is almost no change from the just leggings of the suit.

also, the drag suit would still add resistance. the racing suits are just to change the body position, not to reduce drag.

What now is the role of drag suits in training? (If this has already been brought up, I tried to go through all the previous comments to check first.)

Who loves Trisha Averill? I sure do

OMG TRISHA AVERILLA IS THE BEST

sean is very smart..... it's working pretty well for him. his girls just won nationals.

Also sorry that I like people who are arrogant

Ok guys, I am really sorry about all the messages.

I have been giving everyone kind of a hard time. It was all in good fun.
Obviously, I am not this full of myself. I just wanted people to believe in themselves and not limit their potential by giving up.
Sorry if anyone was offended.

This conversation has just fallen apart...

It is obvious that "full of myself?" is an idiot who is just egging everyone on here...let it go everyone else... you are just doing what he wants you to do...he wants to feel important...when in reality he is living in his mom's basement....

It sounds like "full of myself" has some great insight on swimming and how to get better. That is what this site is about! Enlighten us "full of myself"

Why won't you give your name?

You are pretty full of yourself for a coward...

*know*

to whoever is saying that all swimmers can make jun nats if they 'worked smarter' or whatever. earlier you were talking of your accomplishments...

"I had Junior Cuts in many events after swimming for only 3 months, and Seniors and OTs in a few events after 6 months. Why?"
do you mind posting who you are? i'd love to have you come and visit with my team and give a talk... i think the kids who've been training and progressing for the last 3 years will love to hear how all their goals and dreams can be done in just 6 short months. i would too, for that matter.

wow, what happened to the last post?

He didn't say everyone was getting one either.

Dope.

AND you aren't reading my comment...I'm not saying everyone is getting a PhD in physics from MIT, I'm saying the majority of people have the ability to do so. Whether they are motivated or not to obtain this degree is a different story. The same goes for junior national cuts. I'm talking about people being capable of achieving the standard that is set now...not the standard that would be set if everyone was reaching near their potential. I understand the bell curve and mediocrity. I understand that mediocrity will always exist. The point of all this is that almost everyone has the ability to be great in whatever aspect of life they want. The people that actually achieve greatness are the ones separating themselves from mediocrity and not limiting themselves based on genetics...

To Kirk,
You are an idiot. You believe that the majority can get a PhD in physics from MIT. I take it you don't have one.

On a bell curve there has to be a mediocre population. Like that dude said below: if everyone made the cut they would just make it harder.
Do you guys not read the other comments before you post?

I agree, completely unscientifically, that about 1% of swimming is talent. But think about it this way, in a 50, that is 1/2 a yard, which is a huge amount.

What matters most is mental attitude/focus, which determine technique, strategy, how smart you train, and how well you race/prepare to race. Last and least important, because everyone does it, is being in great shape/training super hard.

Oh definitely true. But anyone that knew me knew that I was in a man's body from age 14 on. So there really I could have done just as much as a college kid in my opinion.

Yes, if everyone were capable of the cut, they would just make it harder.

yeah my coach says the same thing "theres more than one way to get that goal time" EX: you can kick like a beast underwater and have a moderate turn over rate or you can just get off the walls and spin the wheels...but for real everybody has a termanal velocity in each event and thats based on all those things training (how hard, how much, how fast), mental toughness, body type and now maybe these suits ..but they ALL play into the mix and make you the swimmer who you are today

Bas-
When I said that someone is slacking, what I mean is that they skip practice/yards, not that they are more effiecient in the water. Every team has a swimmer who swims fast despite slacking. The point that I am making is that hard work is not the sole predictor of success in athletics. To say that if a swimmer can't make juniors, then they must not be working hard enough is a ridiculous statement.

DeSantis,
You are a (eh hem) man now - the data can't be used against Chris "the boy."

National cuts are set because only the top percent of swimmers are supposed to make the cut. If too many people make it...the next year they lower the standard to make it more difficult. In other words they don't want everyone to make it. This conversation about "everyone" being able to make cuts is silly. Think about it.

You're both right. I've been watching this thread progress and thinking about who I agree with.

People have hereditary difference both psychological and physical that will impact their performance. Everyone is different in this respect. This probably accounts for more than 1% of performance difference although neither of us have empirical data to back that up.
On the other hand, chances are ALL of us could be getting more out of ourselves. Admittedly when I swam in college I was not Junior National caliber. I thought, at the time, that I was very close to getting the most out of my talent. Years later, I've found that I can actually swim significantly faster (close to Junior National level, although I have yet to race yards), with about 10% of my peak collegiate yardage and about half the training time. Now I have to believe that there is a lot more I could get out of my "talent".
I consider it a blessing to have less innate psychological or physical talent for swimming. It forces you to problem solve to keep improving and makes success much more satisfying.

Seriously guys...life is not fair and neither is swimming. No one who has succeeded in this sport has taken the same path. Some are naturally talented and swim fast off of pure talent. Others have some talent and know how to develop that talent into fast swimming. And finally, some people who have no talent know how to work their butts off to swim fast. There is no magic recipe. Oh that swimming fast was as simple as just working hard...

So according to some people who posted, the fastest kids on the team are the hardest workers, and the slowest kids are slow because they don't work hard? On my team, some of the biggest slackers are the fastest, and some of the hardest workers are the slowest. Those who are fast without work ethic are fast because of their talent. Not everyone has the same ratio of fast twitch to slow twitch muscle fibers, VO2 max, reaction time, or motor control. Although these traits may be changed somewhat by training properly, there are limits as to how much they can change. Most people never reach their limits, however, to suggest that a swimmer is slow only because they do not work hard is absurd.

Tiger Woods doesn't wonder why so many people have a hard time with it, he wonders why people who play everyday and wish they were good and wish they could play on the tour and complain about not being "talented" don't work on the little things, and practice correctly, and put time in where they should, LIKE HE DOES.

These kids that Sean has aren't super talented at all, they are just willing to work harder and smarter than your average swimmer, so they get better results. In fact, I would say that compared to many/most swimmers I see them swim against, they are less talented, yet somehow compete and beat so many of them. Hmmmm. Talent is a more or less made-up idea, and success in swimming is more about some physical training and a lot of mental focus that sets high caliber swimmers apart from "untalented" kids? Who woulda thunk it?

Just like how the kid picking daisies in the outfield isntnecessarily less talented than the one pitching the one-hitter, he just doesn't care/pay attention/try/FOCUS ON THE CORRECT THINGS.

Its pretty obvious who the winners are in this thread and who the losers are.

The winners are espousing that anybody can be great, and it is a matter of determination, and working harder and smarter. The losers have resigned themselves to the fact that they will never excel, because they aren't "talented". Pathetic.
Talent, like luck, takes you that last one percent, while the rest of your achievement and success are based on your body of training and mental focus. Pretending to not be talented enough is just lack of mental toughness, and is extremely detrimentalto success.

I had Olympic cuts after 4 practices. I was super focused and worked really hard. After 6 months of training I quit after setting every world record. Sure it took time to adjust my technique to my own body but i go through. I quit because I was bored that no one else was working as hard as I was. People are just limiting themselves. Genetics is just an excuse. I am sick of hearing about people limiting themselves.

What you guys can't fly? Losers.

By claiming genetics play a huge role, people are limiting themselves..."I can't do this because I'm not tall enough" blah blah blah, it's crap, you can do whatever you want to if you put your mind to it...obviously it's a little different in certain situations, but I'm getting sick of hearing about people limiting themselves. I've seen several people excel despite being short or other physical traits. My take on it is that you need to adjust your technique to your own body type in order to excel, but too many people use genetics as an excuse to be mediocre.

"I had Junior Cuts in many events after swimming for only 3 months, and Seniors and OTs in a few events after 6 months"

Yeah, I'm sure Tiger Woods can't understand why everyone else has such a hard time playing golf, either.

Not everyone can acheive junior cuts. Genetics play a huge role into how fast one can become; it's not 100% about working hard. Those who are able to make cut after a short time in the sport are blessed with good genetics.

anyone (even the least talented swimmer) can be an olympian with minimal effort and with just a little more effort win eight golds. I had an OT cut after only three months of swimming and seniors after only 6. You all just need to work harder.

?
It might be dumb... but think of it -
Maybe a very cheap version of the speed suit can be created to wear in swim practice.
Legs only.

Where is AGON Swimwear? Rafa will know what to do here!

Maybe the cheapest way for swimmers to simulate some leg flotation without using a real speed suit will be something along the lines of Steve Freiderang's RANGS.

I'm not selling these things.
I'm just sayin and I'm just askin...
Tropical Penguin RANGS Independent Pull Buoys
RANGS™ are patented neoprene independent pull buoys that wrap around each leg and hold with velcro to free you to pull naturally. Each buoy conforms to your legs, providing the most efficient lower body support. This support then allows you to settle into a front-end dominated rhythm as you develop upper body strength.
So rip your turns, even kick off the wall if you want, knowing that the independent buoy system will not fall off.
RANGS can be used for all four strokes, providing much more natural rotation in freestyle and backstroke, and creating a more streamlined body position in breast and fly.
Better for rhythm. Better for balance.
Why RANGS are better:
• Develop a strong enduring upper body without sacrificing your rhythm.
• Focus on pulling, not on holding your thighs together. Focus on snapping your turns, not on retrieving your pull buoy.
• Easier on your shoulders because Rangs are anatomically shaped and encourage long axis rotation.
• Rangs allow you to continue developing core strength and endurance as you pull -- using your legs to balance.
• Advantages in teaching too: used at the knee RANGS force flyers to use the hips, discouraging bent knees on the upkick; used in backstroke RANGS literally throw you into proper rotation.
• Adjustable up and down the leg to customize for different body types. • Encourages front-end swimming in all four strokes. Place the foam on either the front or back of the thigh. RANGS conform to each body. Adult and child sizes.
• Perfect for senior swimmers, triathletes, masters, age groupers, fitness swimmers, water polo players, professional lifesaving applications and even professionally supervised lessons. Rangs are a training aid, NOT a lifesaving device.
List Price: US $49.95

How is that a bad message? Should kids not deal with the truth? I see this everyday at the pool, some swimmers just don't focus their energy correctly. It is, of course, true that any and all swimmers could be Junior National swimmers if they tried. Im not saying they arent trying hard, they are just rying hard to swim a lot, not trying hard to swim faster. What is wrong with saying that?

I had Junior Cuts in many events after swimming for only 3 months, and Seniors and OTs in a few events after 6 months. Why? Because I didn't feel like wasting time in the pool, so I focused and trained correctly. You should all stop whining about someone posting something real and worry about why some swimmers refuse to train to swim fast. I would classify it as a disorder. Why invest so much time and energy into something but not work on technique, kicking, and changing speeds?
It would be like training to be a quarterback and sitting at practice throwing 300 post patterns everyday, where someone else practices 10 different routes 10 times each practice, and is 10 times better on gameday.
And you all would be the ones claiming that it is soooo difficult to be a quarterback, I mean just look at all your kids throwing 300 post patterns everyday and never getting better. Jeesh. Get a grip on reality.
And go ahead and tell me Im wrong, or shortsighted, or absurd, and then tell me why I have success in the sport, despite minimal yardage and experience(less than 1 year), and you are all sitting around complaining how difficult it is to make Junior cuts. That is laughable.

Garrett Can you erase those two posts from Huh and Wrong?

That is a terrible message for swimmers.
No place for that on floswimming.

It is amazing sometimes how short sighted people can be. If junior cuts were so easy to make it would not be a nation event. I hope honestly that two posters (huh and wrong) are just trying to stir up controversy or don't coach.

Imagine them as your coaches?
"Hey, kid, you didn't make a national cut so clearly you are not taking swim seriously at all"
Laughable.

Why? I agree with that. If you aren't making those times you either aren't working hard or aren't working right. Anybody and everybody is capable of swimming that fast, if you take yourself seriously at all. I see way too many people just swimming lap after lap without thinking about flexibility, torque, changing speeds, kicking, starts, turns, underwaters, breathing, and general stroke technique.

Just a little focus on doing things correctly and even the least talented swimmer will make Junior National cuts at a minimum, because so many other swimmers train like fools.

"Everyone is talented enough to at least make Junior National cuts with minimal effort."

This is an absolutely absurd statement.

You guys are wrong, suits are easy to come by.

I am poorer than anyone else in the entire swimming community. I am flat broke. Zero money, rent control, food closet, eviction notices. And I get suits because I try hard enough to make cuts.
I train smart and do what I have to do. If you or your kid arent willing to put in the effort to make cuts without the suits, then they shouldn't be in the sport. Everyone is talented enough to at least make Junior National cuts, with minimal effort.
If not, you or your coach are doing something wrong, and you dont deserve free suits, and you should cough up the money. If you are poor and dont try hard, then you should just quit the sport.

\/\/\/\/ okay, that is absolutely the funniest post i have seen on here in a long time.

Strange -

Worry not. In our new world, I believe it has been promised to all who desire a racing suit - will get what they want. They will go find the
rich people - such as Sean's swimmers - and tell them it is they're moral and patriotic duty to buy suits for those upon whom it would be a burden to purchase themselves.

Strange -

That is great for Sean's swimmers!!! What about people who don't swim for huge rich club teams!!?!
Yeah, tell some kid on the cusp of Senior Nats that never makes it but other suit swimmers do... tell that kid to lighten up...

I dont mind them training with suits. I dont like wearing suits too often, because I like the change in feel at meets. The psychological pump-up feeling is cool. But if they want to more power to them.

And Sean knows what hes doing. Im sure if someone is at the lower level of his group, he will get a suit for them, or have a higher level swimmer lend them their suit. Or, if someone is poor, same deal.
People need to lighten up.

This is stupid. They are effectively creating a giant divide between the upper and lower class of swimming. There is no middle ground. Swim is becoming even more yuppie than it has ever been.

Hello?...are you paying for these suits....theres no way a swimmer from the average middle class family in this day's age can afford to be doing this, especially with these new suits, even if the get a new one for free cas ehte have J Nat times....However I do see the purpose but everyday in practice?...how about just for test sets?... I'm sorry but this seems like a waste.... there are DI colleges out there don't have the funding to even entain the idea of buying one of the new suits for their conference team and there out there practicing in them ...somethings not right

Ben, I see your point, but from the few seconds of video that actually shows swimming, the suits I'm seeing don't look like LZRs or Neros.

Kirk Nelson and others -

You seem to be missing the point. While technical suits have been in widespread use for a few years ago, Sean is not talking about training with FSII-era suits. Sean is saying that the NEW suits (we're talking speedo lzr, blueseventy nero, TYR tracer rise, etc) are changing the body position of swimmers due to the suit's ability to increase the flotation of their legs. This flotation is caused by then use of neoprene woven into the suit that helps keep the legs on top of the water. The technology we're talking about here is not found in the older generation of suits (FSII, etc). Therefore, it doesn't make sense to practice in an older-era suit like the FSII. Because of the lack of neoprene in the fabric, the legs won't stay on top of the water and the entire point of the exercise is missed.
So to say that swimmers are just pulling out old suits to traing with that they've had for a few years is wrong. We're talking about training in the new generation LZR type suit, not old FSII style suits. In order to participate in this type of training, you will NEED to have a LZR or equivalent - older generation suits will not achieve the desired effect.

While I do agree that the suits are leading the sport in the wrong direction, you cant say the suit makers have done nothing good for the sport, they've brought in the money, which is what our sport really needs to grow. Its a bit of a catch-22 we have here, as evidenced by Nike bailing out.

These suits have been in widespread use for a few years now and most top swimmers probably have a nice pile of "gently used" suits that have been more or less relegated to the bottom of their suit drawer, so why not get some use out of them? We all know the best swimmers have an innate feel for what they need to do to swim fast. If the suits affect their body position then it seems reasonable to assume they also might require slightly different technique to get the most from them.

If you don't like the tennis analogy, what about what fiberglass poles did for pole vaulting?

I love that Sean is willing to speculate and give an opinion here. Even makes a bouyancy joke. Take that Russell!

I think what Coach Hutchinson is failing to realize is that unless his swimmers are wearing a lzr, tracer, blue seventy...ect there really is no core stabilizing factor in these old technical suits. The fastskin, fs2, fspro, and the tyr versions all boast compression and reduced drag, but no core stabilization that is the issue with the new suits. I dont see any benefit from wearing old suits in practice minus the compression factor on the legs that gives us all the feeling of riding higher in the water. And wearing the new suits in practice everyday would be ridiculous also, that being said i see no problem in wearing the new suits in the weeks leading up to a taper meet the get the body primed for racing conditions.

Check out the swimnews piece on future of suit technology and how it is possible that the newest suits will include biofeedback between the material and the swimmers body. Sound like a Marvel comic book story in the making.
The banning of suits that cover the entire body, now very much a part of USA swimming deliberations, is a step in the right direction. This ban, which still needs to be endorsed by FINA, would prohibit suits that cover the arms and legs below the knees. The idea is to cut out the ultimate "biofeedback" suits and put a limit on the technological development.

Re tennis comments....Federer will never the be the greatest tennis player until he wins a major on clay. Rod Laver is still number 1. Re Borg...while he beat McEnroe in the epic 1980 Wimbledon match it was McEnroe's superior athletic ability and more advanced tennis skills that pushed Borg into retirement at age 24. I do agree that the racket/suit analogy is a poor one, largely because in tennis the dominant players in an era dominate the competition of their day not the past. In swimming, we are always competing against current, past and future competitors through the clock. Hence, like baseball also statistically focused, history and tradition are important.

Great Idea, this guy really knows his stuff

This guy is a student of all the aspects of Suit Theory. He really studies the behavior of all the different swimmers and their advancements with the suits.
I like him. Good job Garrett.

Very interesting insights from coach hutch on the kick as it relates to body/hip position - but if you're cranking your kick during practice WITHOUT the suit.....aren't you only going to benefit (and feel the effects even greater) once putting it on come race time?

the girls are wearing guys suits... hehe

sean i heart you

Interesting ideas to contemplate. It is certain the suits are revolutionizing the sport for sure. Training with the suits would seem..painful...to me, however im not sure if I understand the advantages of training in them. The idea I have of the suits is that they are like are like turbochargers: You obviously gain more speed (or less drag), they are more effective for certain types of engines (body types) therefore the engine (body) need to be modified to gain the most speed, and most similar they are costly!

good interview. That being said, with each passing day I am wishing these "fast suits" would go away. Between the speculation on who was wearing what when they did this time or that or whether it was right to wear a suit to this meet or that and the cost of the whole thing. It really sucks. Screw the suit manufactures - they are helping the sport of swimming none at all. Instead of the general public watching a meet and seeing a bunch of amazing bodies they'll see a bunch of clones.

Big Guy is right, Coach Hutch is amazing for sharing his ideas with the swimming community. They always seem to be on the cutting edge or swimming. Awesome interview Garrett!

Is anyone listening to this? You are talking about 400 dollar suits that have a shelf life of maybe 7 wears if you dont put your thumb through it. So much for USA swimmings commitment to "outreach" (aka lower income minority swimmers.). And he is training in them? And..if they do change body position and have the flotation element that most acknowledge (wink,wink) then what the hell has happened to swimming. JC, you can be a bodybuilder and put on a suit..I would love to see what Sabir M. could have done with a suit..
Anyway, the Racket suit analogy doesnt fly.. The racket Bijorn uses probably doesnt split when you are on the blocks (keller) and the racket would probably have the same rate of improvement regardless of body type..not like the suit....
BTW..is no one on the swimming world effected by the economy? i

So are you covering the Husky Invitational? Will there be coverage of the Texas Invite?

So if you practice with the fastest suit in the world what do you step up to when you have to race? I have always felt that these fast suits are to be used sparingly (finals at big meets only) but using them in practice seems (to me) to devalue their worth not to mention take away the incrediablly hyped psychological effect of them.

However maybe thats just me and i could be wrong...
opinions?

it's not so much ther acket but the new training that makes Federer amazing. Health and fitness weren't as important to tennis players back then as it is now.It's also just sheer talent. Borg was talented but no one in the history of tennis is as talented as Federer.

the suit doesnt make the man the man makes the suit. enough said

Let's get off the cost of the suits, I believe that genie is out of the bottle. We are going to have to live with it so why dwell on depression? (Go to your closet right now and count how many older generation suits you have that you could wear for practice).

I find it fascinating that a major club is commiting so completely, and with well thought out reasoning, to the new technology. It is also refreshing to hear the head coach admit it is just his feeling, there simply is not enough history to prove it right now. Action like this in a new environment is sometimes the start of an entire new approach. Time will tell where this takes King as a club.
Kudo's to Sean Hutchison for sharing his insight in such detail. As has been said many times on Floswimming, the willingness of American swimming coaches to share is what really allows us to excel. Kudo's to Garrett for continually being on top of what 's happening in our sport.

amazing! the suits are not only changing the way we race, but also the way we practice now. its a weird era we live in. i bet sean gets a ton of TYR suits for free, so im sure he can suit up his national team at least.

that link in the description should be working now.

what a great, young, perspective on the evolution of the strokes. Is coach Hutchison hiring? always love the technique videos.

how long does it take to get those things on every day...

Depressing...yes, but as; swim coaches, parents and swimmers we have to find a way to provide these suits to our swimmers. Just think of all the basketball teams out there with their $100-200 shoes. When the fancy shoes came out years ago, did many teams say "can't afford them" and stick to the Converse All-Stars? No, they found ways to provide the product to their players.

Yes, we might have to be extremely creative, but that is why our sport has been so successful. I think that pressure needs to be put on Speedo, TYR and other suit companies to provide their product at a lower cost.
OH the joy of supply and and demand.

Does anybody else find this depressing? How in the hell is any sort of struggling club team or swimmer supposed to compete with people/clubs/colleges that have financial resources to do things like this. Maybe its no different than it ever was - YOU CANT, but I'm an idealist. I would like to think anybody can aspire to compete at the top.

I wonder what Dagny is doing in ND....of course she probably has all the suits she needs.

some coaches swear that putting the suit on dry makes a tremendous difference compared to the suit being wet because of the air that gets trapped under the fabric. hutch-- do you think there is something to that? are race conditions with the suit inherently different from practice conditions? also, pete malone once told me that he thought that swimmers tend to overkick early in their races with the suits because of the way their legs feel with them. I feel the opposite, in that when i have raced in them i felt that my legs did not fatigue (due to compression?) as much as they did without it. any thoughts after practicing with them?

What about the financial implications of kids wearing these suits in practice? They won't be able to race in the same suits they've trained in, so are parents then going to have to buy 3-4 a year? What about the kids that can't afford one let only practice and race versions? I appreciate that he said they try and use the "old" ones, but this still implies that you are going to have to buy multiple suits. Kids grow you need need new suits, but considering our current global financial meltdown we are getting seriously close to pricing kids out of the pool, not to mention entire men's college programs.