The Goal is Still the Top Spot in Rome : Speakers & Interviews

Sorry dude reread it I guess Scott said this to Nico Belgium swimmer.

Figures you would have a moniker like that! Don't tell people
where they can post, were a free country. This guy is much more
intelligent then you so I can see how this must bother you very
much. Live with it big guy!!!

i'll do it myself. sorry, i was tired and fed up after reading the whole thread.

Can a mod please delete this comment? It offers nothing new to the discussion and bashes another poster without stating a legitimate reason. Grow up man.

Of course Freddy will swim fast in an adidas. A woman wearing an adidas has been 52.5 100 meter free.

What a bunch of whiners! geting rid of all technology after the fs2 is what needs to happen.Rome will be fast and if the new rules next year come in the records from there will be there for a long time.the new adidas suit with biofedback is one to watch for in Rome. It will make jaked, lzr, look slow.
Put freddy in an adidas and see what happens. he is very fast in any suit.

you are obviously one of the ones that doesnt get it. the suits help each individual a hell of a lot. its not going to make every single person go a 20.9 but it might make say a 23.0 guy go a 22 low or something like that. you cannot deny that the suits, especially the jaked, help people drop very large amounts of time.

Really?
I believe the 800 for women was broken in an LZR.

Is it possible that Hackett in his prime was just an amazingly talented swimmer? As are some of the swimmers that are breaking world records today.
I do agree with you though that tech suits will help more in sprint events, but their effects will to some degree still be helpful in distance events as well.
There was never a question that tech suits do help a swimmer achieve faster times, but they don't turn an ordinary swimmer into a world record breaker.

1) stop embarrassing your daughter.

2) some records are faster than others. You can't bring Hackett's mile into this. Then you would have to bring in every record that hasn't been broken yet.
3) yes, the Jaked makes you go faster.
4) Bousquet went 20.9 in a Jaked, then went 21.9, 22.0, and 21.7 during its ban. He just went 21.1 this weekend in a Jaked again. Just coincidence, right?

the reason hackett's record hasnt been broken is because the suits help out the sprinters more than the distance swimmers

You know what's funny, is that there are so called "experts" that are speculating and spewing garbage about something they have absolutely no experience with. You seem to be one of these, El Duder.
For the AC poster to claim a 3 second drop in a 100 free LC is ed.
Particularly since he says it was done as the last of five max effort 100 free repeats. Who changes suits after 4 repeats? If the suit was changed, there would have been a span of 20 - 30 minutes after the last 100 to get the suit on, which is a lot of time to rest up and get a faster time than any other 100 in the set.
So regardless, a completely pointless argument that the suit itself is worth 3 seconds in the 100. If it's that good, why is Hackett's 1500 WR still out there?
By those calculations, (15 x 3), if it's the suit, shouldn't the world record now be about 13:50 for the 1500 LC?

And yes, my daughter was in the top 40. Now she's #42, and will undoubtedly drop further as times from the recent meets across Europe will be added to the Fina rankings. She swims freestyle, and she's from Canada.
I'm sure you can figure out the rest on Fina.
For all the haters, skeptics, and know it-alls, just leave the suit issue alone for the next couple of months. Give the swimmers some credit.
Hopefully Fina will come out with something standardized and fair for January next year. At least that will give everyone time to adjust to the thought of having to discard thousands of dollars worth of swimwear.
Furthermore, the current Fina suits that are the subject of all this debate are readily available to anyone.
Unfortunately, not all suits that are on the current approved list are available to the general public, such as the x-glide, hydrofoil, etc...but the swimmer ultimately has the responsibility to choose what works the best for him or her
If they happen to be in a contract with a manufacturer, well, that is of their own choosing, and they are likely reaping great benefits from that sponsorship.
Choices are not always easy or clear, particularly when money gets involved.

Does anyone else find it funny that this person is challenging someone else's claim of being an NCAA finalist and then turning around and saying his own daughter is top 40 in the world?
SHOW ME THE MONEY!!!

If you're saying that a suit (Jaked or otherwise) will drop your time 3 seconds or more in a 100, you're either not as good as you say/think you are, or you're full of crap.
No suit anywhere will do that.
If you are a men's NCAA finalist as you claim, who are you and where's your proof?
My daughter's top 40 in the world, so she's not exactly slow.
If what you say is the gospel truth, then I guess Fred should have really gone 19.9 in that suit. Man, what a slacker he must be.....

I wouldn't be surprised at all if you went from a 1:44 in the 200 free (Assuming you were using FS Pro or older technology) to a 1:39 in a Jaked. Just have faith in the suit and you'll do it man. After all, its all mental right?

...and Fred hasn't been 20.8 YET. Luckily, since can still wear the suit which I will now refer to as "The Big Red Bastard," we'll probably see it. Maybe faster.

bousquet seems like a cool guy. he is definitely not an arrogant french snob like i assumed he would

ok...so put one on and go 20.9 shaved and rested

Fish-

You're just plain wrong. The JAKED is crazy fast. It feels like cheating when you wear it. I am a men's NCAA finalist and fairly accomplished swimmer. I put on a JAKED and did my lifetime best 100 free in practice, well under 50.0 LCM. I taper very well and swim slow throughout training, so this amazed me. This was after a test set where my times on the first 4 100s were in the 52-53 range, going max effort, plenty of pain. The fifth effort, with the JAKED, felt easy and I didn't push it, no lactate buildup and did a best time.

wow i am getting so sick of this bull crap. ppl stop complaining about the suits. god. people man up and by ur self or ur kids suits. seriously this iss the new wave of swimming get it straight. there is no turning back. if u want to survive in this sport u are going to have to adapt. stop wining ur asses off about this not being fair. i have a blueseventy, and it took zero effort to get it. just go on any swimming website and buy it!!!!!! fred ur a beast! i respect ur WR. a suit doesnt make u go 20.8. u have to train and work hard to get that fast. seriously if i put on a fast suit right now such as the jaked i am not going to drop my time from a 1.44 200fr to a 1.39 with out any effort. fred is a great swimmer so stop talking crap about his wr, bcuz he had best " legal " suit. o and one last comment i bet if speedo made some amazing super super super suit it wouldnt be any problem. but since its arena, jaked, b70 or any other brand its a huge deal. People grow up.

We're not discussing the average height of swimmers... we're discussing the average height of the best swimmers.

I notice you can't provide a source proving me wrong about those weights.

Let's just have everyone tape-up, throw out all suits because they are a disadvantage anyway, and end this debate.

It looks like FINA is starting to hear what the bloggers and commenters are saying. Please click the link and vote in the most important poll in swimming history (on the right side of the page.) The poll is open until january 1st 2010. Let FINA hear how you really feel about suits!!

http://swimviking.blogspot.com/

agreed. Michael Gross (aka "the Albatross") was absolutely huge - 6'8'' or 6'9'' I believe. Popov was 6'7'' approx.

Although training methods have definitely refined, I don't think that today's swimmers have any natural physical advantage over those of the past. There is no argument as to whether or not the suits aid performance or not - if they didn't, nobody would wear them (would you spend $400 on a suit that didn't work?). The argument is whether or not there can be fair competition with the advent of new technology. Even if all swimmers have access to the new suits, some may not want to buy one because they feel they are cheating by doing so. This automatically puts them at a disadvantage. I think if the suits stay around long enough, the swimmers of future generations will buy them and the suits will integrate into the sport, making it fair again, however, this will certainly not be the case for World Champs this summer.

that's maybe cause america being the most powerful country on earth we know what's happenning in your country ;) it might be also because european seems more incline to politics
and it's also maybe because you don't know the name of my prime minister or king so trying to make exemple with Bush is a good way to explain my views to american ;)

now as for the suits ... gosh are people so deaf ????? Yes suits back in 2000 helped breaking World record, yes it was a significant drop and yes the controversy was Far from what it is now
BUT it's because those suits were reducing water resistance which is something that can be achieve by shaving :D
WHEREAS now suits are helping BUOYANCY !! this is a COMPLETELY DIFFERENT problem !!!!
Reducing water resistance is OK i think cause yu still need technique, ... to stay on top of the water and swim fast
whereas buoyancy is maybe the KEY to swimming !!!
anywayz britta stefen beat the WR in a time of 52'85 and even she after her swim says the suits played a significant part of it !!!! WELL DOE Brita ! ;) more people should be like you
and when you said his views are shared by some not necessarily so many .... just find me ten swimmers ( internatinal level I mean ) ot sharing his views ???? I'm waiting ;)

His views are shared by some, not neccessarily so many. Suits have controlled the sport in one way or another for years, not just the last little while, and until competitive swimming is swum naked, suit makers will always win one way or the other.
Of course the new generation of suits help to improve the speed of the swimmers, I don't think anyone is denying that. But it's similar to what the previous generation of suits did before them, and the ones before them, and so on. Perhaps not on the same scale, but this is really nothing all that new. You should look back at the controversy that the first Fastskin body suit caused 9 years ago.
It's called progress, and there are those, mostly for selfish reasons, that would like to keep things just as they were, very much like your analogy of Bush.

Funny that you talk so much about American politics when you're supposedly from Belgium.

He may have an inflated ego as you said ( who knows) but his views are shared by SO MANY others that I think he might be in the right and therefore he's right to decredit the suits, ...
he nobody stands up and act , suits, money, .. will take control of our sport like it's slowly happening at the moment ....

Just to give you names so that your brain can figure out who between a regionnal ( or better you didn't say) swimmer and an olympic medalist knows more about what's best for the sport of swimming !
==>> Roland Schoeman ! is against the suits AND FINA monopole on decision making about swimming; he's OLYMPIC champion
==>> Amaury Leveaux has threatened to boycott the 50 free at worlds if jaked isn't banned
he is an olympic silver medalist
==>> Fillipo Magnini is saying everywhere he'd like to see swimmers swimming in trunks again
he is a double world champion in 100 free
==>> ALAIN BERNARD said FINA had gone too far and that it was dagerous for swimming
he is the current olympic champion in 100 free, ...
I could go on and on and on from national level swimmers to international level swimmers to olympic medalist level to the olympic champion to the national federation to the national coaches to FORMER swimmer as Popov or Hackett Or Shane Gould to former coach as forbes carlile
FINA is a dictatorship at the moment and the thing is the swimming world in it's vast majority have had enough of that !!
If nobody acts or say anything or just says " Yeah I'm against suits but I'm not gonna do anythg about it" then suitmakers have already won !!!
A revolution can only be initiated by swimmers and FOR the swimmers !! we need ( even if FINA decision doesn't really affect me personaly has I'm not international level ;) or even national just regional I guess) but we need FINA to stand up against money controlled companies and take decision in the BEST INTEREST of swimmers !! where do you see that in FINA current decision ??? Nowhere !!
SO it's simple and clear ===>> time to ACT as Craig lord and other leading swimming personnalities are doing at the moment !!!
Anywayz I'm fed up of trying to argue sometimes ;)
Swimming is a technique based sports that doesn't need equipements to come and denature everything !! suits are cool but buoyancy helping suit is a cancer that has to be fought till it's out of the pool !
Swimming needs swimmers to take decisions not lobbists !!
and to people saying suits, ... oesn't make a difference please ........... tuuut ...... cause really I may never have worn a Jaked suit as you stated but when Lezak swim 47 somethg IN season fa away from trials whereas his PB is only a few hundreth away really suits are helping !!!
WHen backstroke swimmers at French nationals go from 54'5 to 53'15 in about five days of national championship there IS somethg abut the suits
when like Five brasilians goes under the minute in 100 breast where as before they were far from it there IS somethg about suits
When bousquet state that the Jaked makes him feel good, ... what is it if not stating that suits HELPS !!
and as for people still thinking we have something against Fred bousquet maybe they should keep voting republican ;) the next time a Bush stands for Election cause really they haven't understand anythg.
I have only one more thg to say : " change we need " and " Yes we can ! "

After reading the latest Jaked "slamfest" from the almighty Craig OverLord, I would suggest to the legal team at Jaked, if one exists, to sue his ass.

This sorry excuse for a journalist is crossing the line between tabloid journalism and inciting the public with malicious comments to rise up against a private company, simply to please his hyperinflated ego.
Impossible to say how much damage he's done already, but he just seems to get worse by the day. Hard to believe Nick Thierry is letting this go on.

First off, more than a few have worn Jaked's in competition against Fred. Just watch the Charlotte Ultraswim coverage, amongst others. Lezak just wore one at the Janet Evans Invitational as well.
To your claim that it's leaps and bounds better than every other suit is plain ignorant.
Have you swam in one?
My daughter has, and she's pretty fast.
While she liked it, it wasn't the "magic suit" as some claim it to be.
Even though the suit is apparently polyurethane, water got through it, and the inside of the suit after one short race was very wet, so no chance of trapping air or any of the other hypothetical baloney that so called "experts" speak of. And yeah, the suit fit her very well. Her times were good, but not much different from her times in an LZR or B70.

It's getting rather ridiculous that people such as Craig Lord and others are now laying the so called suit crisis blame game at the door of Jaked, blaming this small company for all that troubles the swimming world and their tormented souls.
Swimming at the higher levels is a professional sport, and money talks. Has for a very long time.
No wonder that most of those who are against the Jaked, B70 and other smaller players in the suit market, have a vested interest in keeping the LZR at the forefront of suit technology. This includes swimmers, coaches, as well as national federations that have contracts with Speedo.
While I enjoy watching the fast swimming and the records getting broken, regardless of which suit it was done in, I myself wouldn't mind it if next January Fina went back to the good old FS1 or similar suits. But only because they were cheaper, and my kid has a closet full of them! lol.....

I don't think that people are trying to vilify Fred or Auburn in particular, but they are the most prominent swimmers that wore a suit(Jaked) that is leaps and bounds better than every other suit against competition that didn't.

Seriously, nico from belgium needs to stop lavishing himself with praises under different usernames. And fred did what was best for fred by wearing the suit he believes is fastest - that's what you do if you want to win.

What I don't understand in some of these arguments is when did Fred or Brett say that the new suits weren't an advantage? I've never heard Fred say, "I could go 21.9 without a suit."... Is he at fault for wearing what LEGALLY gives him the best chance to win? I'd argue that's his job as a pro swimmer.

6'5" 200 lb. is sooooo skinny.

Jon Urbanchek had a really good interview on here about the suits, it was at NCAA's.

Craig Lords site has a facebook page for every athlete
that is against the suits, this site is put up by Schoeman.
BACK TO THE BRIEFS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! GO TO IT SIGN UP

"everyone who will be a contender for the title will have a suit of their choice, why is there argument, its fair"

Phelps, Sullivan, Trickett are under contract with Speedo. I doubt any of them will break their contract, so it'll be interesting to see what happens at Rome. If Phelps fails to medal in the 100 free, I imagine there will be a blacklash against the new suits by the US media.

Oh and both are obviously tall, just not very thick

Alain Bernard isn't that big, neither is Cielo. I've stood next to both and Bernard is skinny skinny skinny, with some good muscle. He is not thick and his waistline is tiny. Cielo is kinda softish looking(although obviously strong) and is by no means a big guy. I'd say by looks Bernard is about 205-10 and Cielo is about 185.

you guys are all ridiculous, you are arguing about something that you have no control over, fina will do whatever it does and you all are going to have to just deal with it

thanks for the support :D ;)

Your my hero ! Don't let them diss your grammar. I like
to see anyone translate from english to french here.
BAND THE SUITS!!!

there is an argumet cause the whole question is do we need suits helping buyaoncy and therefore reducing the technique that would be necesary to float or are we accepting them and let our sport become a equipement based sport where ( like in formula one) the winer is the one with the best suit and not the one being the best swimmer !!

now suits are helping swimmers differently !!! so there is NO level playing field !! dependig on the size, weight, ... of swimmers the suits are helping them differently !!
if sullivan have a gain of 20/100 of a second with the jaked maybe that bousquet has a gain of 17/100 and bernard of 22/100 so WHERE is the level playing field there ???????
If there is no miracle equipement there will be a level playing field !!!
As for people saying that swimmers would have gone sub 21 or even low 20 without the suit !!
umh have you have watched a swimming competition in 2007, something called the world championship ;) I don't remember more than a few people going sub 22 !! and it was only a little bit more than a year ago ! so I think that makes it clear swimmer are not way better now !! they just have new equipements !! otherwise whyelse would it take 8 years to break both the 50 and 100 WR and a year later those times have been ANIHILATED ( 0.8 sec in the 50 and 0.9 in the 100 ) and not only by one or two swimmers but by nearly ten !! :D
as for my comparison which mr richadson say wasn't accurate ;) I agree it could have been a better one but still your implies that either brett hawke has a revolutionary technique and training which I doubt otherwise he would have applied it to himself while he was swimming
or that swimming training have evolved so much in less than a year time !!
People I think that when you have 108 WR, top 100 rankings showing only times set in 2008 or 2009,... there is something that didn't go normally ;)
It's a bit like when Mc Cain was saying that the fundametals of the economy were strong the day after Lehman brothers started the financial crisis
it's bit like G W Bush saying the climate change doesn't exist until atural disaster, wildfires in california, glaciers melting, ... becomes so apparent that he looks dumb
It's a bit like the Church trying to burn people going against their beliefs back i the middle ages
and it's not me saying that suits ARE helping !!it's inernational leading coaches who certainly knows more than all of Us ;) it's facts !! get over it ! Let's ban the suits and let's have a pure sport AGAIN ! :d

I have only one user name ;) and the only post I'm writing are the ones were I use " I " when I state one of my opinion ;)

sorry if I'm making grammar mistakes but english being my second language and french my first one , I guess it's normal to do mistakes sometimes ;)
as for my views they are supported by nearly every single sportsnewspaper, swimming federation , swimming coaches , olympic champions or former swimmers ,... so i guess that I don't have to write " fake post" ;) just to convince myself or others that my views are good ones ;)
umh I've ever insulted anyone ;) and if someone else use the same pseudo what can I do about it ;)

everyone who will be a contender for the title will have a suit of their choice, why is there argument, its fair

If they throw out the suits in 2010, I say someone will still go under 21.0. My money is on Fred or Cesar. Then they will be pushing 20.0 in a few short years after that with or without the suit. People will continue to push the envelope.

there is no way alain bernard only weighs 200 pounds. According to your numbers he weighs less than lezak? did you watch them standing on the blocks next to each other at the Olympics? he has got to be 220-230 at least. And I'm fairly sure Cesar is more than 180. At 6'5 (which im not debating, that seems right), 180 would be very skinny. I'm 5'11 170 and most wouldn't describe me as buff, which Cesar clearly is.

You guys are just monstrous freaks. 5'7", 133.
That's why I don't swim the 50.

I'm speaking "in general" here. Athletes are bigger and faster than ever, including swimmers. Swimmers with talent and a feel for the water that are "taller" are generally faster than shorter swimmers. Having said that, somewhere down the road a swimmer would break 21.0 seconds without the suit, had it never existed. The suit simply made it happen sooner. Check the average height of swimmers 20 yrs. ago, I think you'll find that they were shorter on average and the times on average have dropped proportionately as swimmers have gotten taller and technique has improved.

I'm sorry, I guess I don't consider 6'2" and 6'3" to be tall for an athlete. I am 6'6" and at least a half-dozen teammates of mine are as tall or taller than I am. And 170-190 lbs is downright small. I am pretty thin and am 215 lbs on a good day.

How can you say "I don't think size has as much to do with swimming as people think" when you just provided a list of 8 dominate people who all happen to be tall? People like Janet Evans are not the norm.

Popov was bigger than many of the current crop of sprinters. I have a VHS recording of both Atlanta and Sydney and in Atlanta he was 6'7" and 87 kg. In Sydney he is referenced as being 2 meters tall(6'6.75") and bulked up to 92 kg.
-----------------------------------
For those averse to the metric system that means he is 6'7" and in 1996 he was 192lbs; in 200 203 lbs.
These are anecdotal heights/weights(no sources, take it for what its worth):
Fred - 6'2" 190 lbs
Eamon - 6'2"-6'3" 170 lbs
Cesar - 6'5" 180 lbs
Amaury - 6'8" 210 lbs
Alain - 6'5" 200 lbs
Lezak - 6'4" 210 lbs
Adrian - 6'6" 210 lbs
Cullen - 6'5" 210 lbs
--------------------------------
I don't think size has as much to do with swimming as people think. Think of all the tiny guys you see killing it underwater or the big guys you see that can't get their rate up high enough to sprint. All shapes and sizes...yada yada yada

Yes, because google is such a reliable source

Pretty sure El Duderino posted below that this isn't true at all. You need to show some sort of proof that swimmers today are bigger and stronger than in the past. Have some facts to back up your statement, dude.

I can speak for myself thank you! The suits suck,and
Belgium guy has great arguments! Leave the guy alone
let him voice his opinions.

ok belgium guy, you have flawed logic. yes, there are people who dont think that the suits are good for the sport, and they are entitled to their opinions. some of those people have logical arguments, but you don't

by the way, i have a job... and im pretty sure that a village somewhere is missing its idiot... you should probably go back there before they get too worried about you.

Don't mean to offend you big guy but Belgium guy
is great! Thats really strange that you would think you
have the only correct view. GET A JOB!!! IM GOING TO WORK NOW!!

nico, its obvious that you're using more than one screenname in an extremely poor attempt to make your views seem like they are actually supported by anyone here. and if you're going to insult the entire community here (which i wouldnt recommend, seeing as the floswimming community is full of great people who know what they're talking about), then at least use correct grammar. it should be "they're" instead of "there"

Go get em! Good luck there pretty dumb!!!

nico, you said: "then for the ones saying that Popov technique is out dated and that bousquet, bernard,suli, ... swims faster and that the suits isn't the problem ... look at who won the 2003 100 free ttle in Barcelona . I think it wa Popov wasn't it ???"

first of all, it was at a meet 6 years ago, when freddy was still a really young up-and-coming swimmer. im guessing that he wasnt NEARLY as muscular or strong as he is now, with all of his extensive training under brett hawke. if you watch a video of him swimming in barcelona, his technique is horrible compared to what it is now.
more efficient technique + stronger pull + stronger kick + more core strength = much better swimmer. if you are going to analyze fred's progress in the past few years, you cannot possibly ignore his stroke changes, increase in strength, and how he trained under brett hawke, who undoubtedly prepared him physically AND mentally. don't just credit all of his recent accomplishments to a suit.
"The thing is he was racing versus guys having the same technique abilities, the same speed abilities and the same talent as swimmer from today but he still manage to win cause he was the most talented !! not cause he had a miracle suit on "
was he racing against eamon sullivan? alain bernard? ceasar cielo? no, he wasn't. sure, fred was also swimming against him, but fred had not swum under brett hawke, who ironically was swimming in that meet. fred also had an insane relay split despite having a horrible technique, which proves that he had enormous potential even before he swam under hawke.
you also seem to be forgetting how much the training and stroke techniques have changed since then, which make a much larger impact than the suits. if you have a horrible freestyle technique and don't work hard in practice, you wont break any records, even if you put on a jaked. stop saying that it was just the suit. just accept the fact that fred is a great swimmer, and you cannot compare him to popov due to the different techniques and training.

Swimmers and other athletes are getting bigger and stronger due to new trianing and technique based on medical and scientific research. Are the new suits helping them go faster just as they did decades ago...of course they are! Had the new suits not been there now they would have eventually gotten to the times they are now without them, the suits have just sped up the process. What is the problem if they all have access to the suit??

They took the JAKED off fred in the last 3 meets and what happened? 2nd to Olympic champ, beats Olympic champ, dominates in Paris. Wow! he really is terrible without it! Now take the lzr off him.

Ill take aaron Ciarla in a jaked in Rome for a 20.33, I heard he eats uranium for breakfast

start your own web page! I think you are a little
advanced for this web site. Seriously you write really well
and you would have a brighter fan base.

to contradict your post : Phelps wore the Leg suit not the jammer ! I just checked on youtube cause I wasn't sure ;)

Phelps in't human so who knows what he really could have done without the LZR ;) :D

but I still don't think he would have gone 4'03 without the LZR ;)
I've never used a full body suits ( i only have legs but intend on buying an FS-Pro fullbody this summer) so I can't tell by experience for the full body.
But as for the legs I really do think they make a difference .
example: my best time on 100 IM was 1'08 and when I first used my legs suit I dropped it to 1'05 and still now as I posted earlier I go a lot quicker with a suit even If I have only Legs ;)
umh thinking about that you might be right , Phelps being unhuman and everything he might have gone a 4'05 ( I think o faster) without the LZR which would still be 2 seconds slower or even one if you consider your estimation of 4'04 then the time he set in beijing ;)
but if you don't think the suit plays a big role just tell me why we saw a surge in WR at the sydney olympics when they first introduce suits and again a HUGE surge of 108 world records in 2008 ???? why is EVERYBODY swimming so fast in 2008 ??? if not for the suit tell me ;)
Now by how much it helps I don't really have a accurate idea I'm no water scientist ;) but the fact is clear and simple it helps and a lot and the latest miracle suits are helping even more in a non equitable way !!! ;)
PS: I just discovered flosswim couple of days ao and I have to say it's great to be able to debate swimming with other people ;) ( even if we don't always agree ;) )

To further your point, Phelps wore the LZR jammer when he went 4:03.

Micheal klim was swiming straight arm freestyle ... and his best in the 100 free stood at 48'18 I think from the olympics in sydney .
SO sure straight arm freestyle helps a lot in free sprinting ! but not for a drop of time like that in a 50 !

then for the ones saying that Popov technique is out dated and that bousquet, bernard,suli, ... swims faster and that the suits isn't the problem ... look at who won the 2003 100 free ttle in Barcelona . I think it wa Popov wasn't it ???
The thing is he was racing versus guys having the same technique abilities, the same speed abilities and the same talent as swimmer from today but he still manage to win cause he was the most talented !! not cause he had a miracle suit on .
The only difference between the way we swim now and the way we swum in 2003-2004-2005 and even 2006 or 2007 is the SUITS !!
come on what else was new in the 2008 season except for the suits ????? Nothing !! yet they manage to break 108 WORLD RECOrds :D I think the situation is clear and simple , it's not the training that change, even less the technique cause Klim was already swimming straight arm , it's the SUITS .
And a for people saying it's just new technologies, ... I would agree with you and would encourage it too if it was not killing one of the key aspect of swimming !! which is buoyancy !!
who would like to see a 100 fly with only dolphin kicks under water ?? the suits are the same here they are denaturing the sports !!
that is why every single leading coach (from Bernard's coach up to former ones)is spoking against the suit !!
And i'm not against technologies ! for example I'm for the introduction of the new starting blocks cause they are not damagig the fundamentals of swimming ( which is just in case you forgot lol ;) )
I'm even for new suits reducing water resistance, ... or some other aspects but suits with polyurethane are just something that should be banned and ot doing it is just incredibly wrong.
Now people may think what is this fuss about when ( if everythg goes acording to plan) they should be out of the pool by 2010.
Here again the answer is simple / what of the 100's or so records that will be set between now and 2010 ?????
Everybody knows the importance of a PB, the joy you have you beat yours,... so what if swimmers would more tha certainly never reach those times again ???
It wuld be very hard to still have plesure racing when you know that whatever you do it will never be yor "fastest" time !
PS: as for the " my suit doesn't swim by itself, It might even sink" that i've read somewhere lol
Come on! people saying that are close to a 12 dumbness on the scale of Richter.
they could have said speed is great or rwhatever other argument but this one !
NOTHING moves by itself except if it's a LIVING organism ! :D
People should pay attention at their biology classes ;) :D
anywayz the good thing about this whole miracle suit would be if Phelpsy was beaten at the world trials in which ever stroke by swimmer "inferior" but wearing a Jaked ;)
FINA would be on their a... and people would realise suits ARE playing a role in SUper perfomance.
But again I haven't great fear for the future considering the whole world of swimming is saying NO to the suits.
ROME 2009 is gonna be a Circus but what else could it be in the eternal city :D

I 100% disagree. In 2007, wearing FS-Pro, Phelps went 4:06.2. Wearing a legs-only LZR in 2008, he went 4:05.2 and 4:03.8. Legs LZRs don't help THAT much. 1:42, I doubt he would have gone w/o a LZR, but he would have been at least 4:04 last year without one.

This is almost comically wrong. Do you have a source on this? Popov was a tall dude and not at all small. A quick google search reveals that Eamon Sullivan weighs 170 pounds, Frédérick Bousquet weighs 190, and Olympic Gold Medalist Cesar Cielo weighs 180. I suppose you're going to tell me that Popov weighed in the 130-150 range? Surely you jest! I suggest you put a little more effort into your posting.

straight arm freestyle has played a larger part in the sprints then the suits, i forget which suit cesar wore for the olympics but both the world record holder and olympic champ have straight arm freestyles. Popovs stroke is outdated now, more powerful strokes that help more in sprints are be more then less perfected

Popov does look like a little kid compared to these guys. Thats because they have like 40lbs on him. And I'm sure that other records that stood 8 years ago are probably barely in the top 25 swims of all time now as well. Times change and people get faster.(Straight arm freestyle)

Bousquet did 20.94 shaved and tapered at the French championships. That is why he went so fast then compared to his recent times. He is probably in the middle of his most intense training of the year right now, getting ready for rome. Realistically, his former best in the hundred was not a second slower than 47.1. He split a 46.6 in the relay in prelims at beijing. Add .7 for the flying start and that puts him at a "sluggish" 47.3. He would have easily made the team in the individual freestyles except Brett Hawke made a mistake at trials putting him in the hundred fly as well, which Brett admits in an interview on Flo.

when people say these suits are "destroying our sport", i really dont understand what they mean. it seems like they are saying its making people faster than they are, and thats not what swimming is, and that it should be based on your own speed and not the suit. but in competition, does it really matter how fast the suit makes you swim if everyone else is able to wear one? when everyone wears one of these suits, they kind of cancel each other out in my eyes, and its still just the people swimming, trying to beat other people who are swimming. they are just going a little bit faster in the process, which i do not believe is a bad thing. and records being broken... well its gonna happen. and really how important are records anyways? there are a lot of things that change in swimming, making people faster and therefor making it easier to break records, but most of these are not seen in the same way as suits. look at the breaststroke pullout, when one dolphin kick was allowed. there were people who hated it, because its not really breaststroke, but eventually everyone got over it and realized competition was still equal.

From the beginning, suits have had a negative effect on swimming due to water absorbtion and drag amongst other things. As time went on suits got more modern causing less drag and no one complained as times got faster and records were broken. The same can be said for every sport I can think of. I'm sure they will all have fast suits on at Worlds, may the best man win.

You can wear any suit you want,baby! FINA doesn't care. Just swim, the first to the wall wins!Let's get over the suit thing. Times,technology,rules,techniques,pools even the water changes. Move on have fun!

Again great article! You are 100% right Popov no way should be down that
far in one years time . It is denfintely the suits, and again what
you posted was worth you getting your own blog page. Your thoughts
are original and true; very hard for alot of these people to absorb.

I wrote the three first post not the fourth one ;)

Now to reply to your reply ;)
I've never said that bousquet said " I'm better than popov" . The thing he actually said was " the suit isn't swimming for me , I do the swim" so therefore he is implying that he would do that time again WITHTOUT the suit on ... which would make him WAY better than Popov !
So technically he meant that he was the best ever !
I'm refering to Popov cause he was the world record holder before miracle suits appeared.
So therefore his times are a better reference than matt biondi's or johnny weismuller's or marc spitz's ...
I don't think the times are changing ... I think the sport is changing and that what is so destructive ! Swimming is based solely on technique and power but mainly technique .
what if a suit helps buyoancy ??? the answer is simple ... you don't need a great technique t stay on top of the water anymore and thus only muscular type guys moving their arms very quickly ,but a lot worse in technique than other guys, will win .
And to me I think it's really a sad image of our sports .
Now everybody can think differently but without being arrogant I think I'm in the right
Alan Thompson, mark schubert, forbes carlile ( the great coach) , Popov, hackett, AND NEARLY EVERY single national coach or federation at the moment are criticizing FINA decision !
And I'm sure Fred is a great guy, he's even my favourite french swimmer ( which means a lot considering I usually don't like them as we are neighbours :D :D) but he's in the wrong right now ! JAKED will kill swimming even if I agree that Speedo was the first one with mracle suit ! at that time the problem wan't understood, now that we understand it time to ACT !
It's just the same as climate change ;) just a different scale :D :D
As for phelps , he would NEVER have gone from 4'11 to 4'03 in 400 IM if it was not for the LZR , maybe 4'07 or 4'06 but not 4'03

I don't want to call you a liar...but why would you lie like that?

That 18.7 was 50 free SCY. Sorry i forgot to mention that! :)

Truth is full suit or tiny speedo Fred is a great swimmer. He can still be fast in a speedo. I experienced him swim an 18.7 at AU swim camp without a block and in a speedo!! It was absolutely amazing. He is a very nice guy, too.

Um Cody - very inspiring, but you're wrong.

FREDDY HAS JUST DEMANDED THAT HE WILL ONLY WEAR A
TINNIE TINY SPEEDO! WHAT A GUY!!!

Thank you I was going to say the same thing but got so
frustrated. Thinking these people are so completely out of
it, you give me hope!

Nope, we dont think that at all.

Get a citizenship in the USA Fred, we would love to have a guy as nice as you representing the stars and stripes. And the fact that you are the fastest swimmer on the planet is nice too.

Does anyone else get the distinct feeling that those defending Fred's time and stating that he would have gone just as fast without a Jaked are kids posting after practice, or just a little simple? NEVER GO FULL RE TARD!

Let em swim as long as they want or are capable. Good career that will keep you in the best shape of your life. coward you hatin cause you missed out on some personal goal you didn't get and are now to old to try and get it. Maybe they don't want to do "something else" as you say yet. Anybody can be a rich prick or hard working blue collar kinda person. But you can only swim so fast before you loose it to age. Then eventually you die. Can't take any of it with you anyways. So if you got the time,money,resources to swim fast when you're older, then by God go do it and screw what everyone else says cause it doesn't matter.

I would like to see an age limit on swimmers. Male 25 years old.
Female 24.

Then the wrinkles start & the flesh gets floppier.
And they get boring. So what -you can swim - isn't it time to do something else?

Fred will win in rome regardless of what he wears. Put him in a LZR, and he can take the rest of the competition wearing Jacked. People should realize by now that he is the best sprinter in the world right now.

the fact remains that we never know how fast fred would have gone if he wasn't wearing a jaked. OR if he was wearing a a lzr instead of a jaked, or a b70 instead of a jaked. sometimes a swimmer has a really really good day, we all know that, we have all been there before. and if he races in a different suit and doesn't go that fast... well we have all had bad days too. the suit might in fact make the swimmer faster, but we don't know that. nobody knows when or if its actually the swimmer, or if its actually the suit that is making the swimmer swim fast, and NOBODY has the right to decide FOR the swimmer. whenever somebody swims fast, whenever somebody does something incredible like Fred Bousquet did, nobody should be saying "oh, you arent the one who did that, your suit did!" i am absolutely positive that if you place your jaked in the water, it will not move anywhere, instead it may even SINK! imagine that! therefor, fred bousquet still swam under 21 seconds. basically, i think that if fred wants to go below 21 without the suit, he can go below a 21 without the suit, but if he chooses to wear the suit, nobody can take away from what he has done or what he is capable of doing.

anyone else get the feeling that begianswimmer and Belgian Swimmer are the same person? ;)

belgianswimmer, why are you so quick to go up in arms for popov? I havent heard bousquet, bernard, lezak, sullivan, or anyone for that matter say that they are "the best swimmer ever" , or that they are "better than popov".. im sure they would all agree that popov could have gone a lot faster in a jaked as well. but the times are a'changin' my friend. if your competition is wearing the fast suits, you would be foolish not to do the same. it might be admirable, but just foolish.

"PS: the same applies to my aussie idols steph rice and eamon sulli or every single swimmer who ANNIHILATED world record last and this year !! including phelps ;) their times woud be a lot slower without a miracle suit on !" -belgianswimmer

true, but remember that phelps was breaking his OWN world records ;)

Once again a great interview with a true champion!

Absolutely amazing the amount of negativity here and around the world towards Fred wearing the Jaked to break the world record in the 50.
Had he done his WR in an LZR, I am certain the backlash against him and Jaked would be either non-existant or much less pronounced.
I guess that magic 50 free time of Popov should forever be the standard that all swimmers should behold to. Give me a break, he never came close to doing it again.
Think about the amount of WR`s in an LZR versus the Jaked, B70 and all other suits combined. Less than 10% I`m sure.
So which suit should really be chastised for changing the direction of the sport of swimming? Obviously the LZR. The slick people behind the scenes at Speedo that managed to slip one past FINA should pat themselves on the back.
The rest of the companies are playing catchup, and if they happen to produce a better product, good for them.
What are the suit haters going to say when the new blocks with the wedge will be used at the World Champs, and the WR will possibly drop again? Will it be because of the suits or the new blocks? Or will it simply be that some of these swimmers bust their ass and wear what suits them the best.
Think back several Olympics, did everyone wear the best and fastest suits they could get their hands on, or did they use old technology?
I'm tired of the whining by suit purists, federations sponsored by the almighty Speedo, and those that would like to protect the records of their heroes from another era.
Enough about the suits already!
Just let everyone swim and leave the guessing and hypothesising about what a swimmer would have achieved in a different suit out of it.

O.K go at it ! Top what Belgium swimmer said, your quick
to criticize. He really put alot of great thoughts there.
Was that adm. critiquing?

Belgium swimmer, too many "!!"s :/

48.2 in Jaked.
49.2 without Jaked.

Got it.

Put Jason Lezak in the Jaked next to Bisqit Bousquet. Come on
people they don't even like him in France. He wouldn't give you the
time of day,but your all drooling over him! GET A LIFE!!!

That was said so well! Your love for the true sport shown though!
I hope one day you have a column of your own, you for sure are
using your brain power here! A toast to the people who remember
real swimming, may we one day see it again!!!

I'm not blaming Fred for the way he swims ! I'm blaming him for his reaction to his swim ( " saying that the suit doesn't help")

the true and only reaction should be " I've made an incredible swim , I'm on target for the world champs, I hope to win there but YES I would never have gone 70 one hundredth of a second faster than Popov if it was not for the miracle suit here present !! I would maybe have swum something close to 21'50 "
PS: the same applies to my aussie idols steph rice and eamon sulli or every single swimmer who ANNIHILATED world record last and this year !! including phelps ;) their times woud be a lot slower without a miracle suit on !
That would have been an honest and true reaction ;) !
But I agree it's not his fault miracle making suit can be used ! the only one responsible is FINA !!!! but as FIna didn't take action ... who else can ??? :D

he defenitely is a hard working even very hard working
he defenitely is a extremely talented
he defenitely is a great and cool swimmer

but he is also like aliitle kid who just learned that santa close doesn't exist but can't see the truth and still think that it ain't his parents putting the present under the Xmass tree !!!
C-mon Fred WAKE UP !!!! Yes you might win in Rome ! AND YES you might even have beaten Alexander the great ( the russian one not the macedonian :D ) if you had swum against him !
BUT STOP PLEASE FOR GOD SAKE STOP saying that the suit ( which ever model) doesn't make you swim SUB 21 !!!!!!
in brief you would Maybe have gone 21'58 , in the very first suit 21'40, in the latest LZR 21'15 but here the JAKED made you swim 20'94 !!!!!!!
WAKE UP FRED !!!
the jaked helps buyoancy !!! what else has the swimer to do ????? move arms ::D :D !!! buyancy is the key to swimming !! a suit helping buyancy is KILLING our sport and denaturing the results PURE AND SIMPLE !!!!

First of all how do you explain that for 8 years the world record stood at 21.64 and all of a sudden Popov now looks like a little kid learning how to swim !! I think now his time is the 25th or something best swim ever !!!!!
an all that in only one year time !!

Second of all , why is Fred swimming so fast only when the jaked is on ????
Why was his best before this year so far from 20.94 ????
And I'm not talking about the 100 where is former best where a full SECOND out of his current best (47'15) !!!!
And Fred isn't the only one ;) what about rafael munoz ???? same question there !! where WAs he last year at the olympics ????? nowhere to be seen that's for sure !!! ( I mean in the final ;) )
Third of all , we ( criticizer of jaked,...) aren't saying that Fred isn't a very fast swimmer but HE is NOT NEVER EVER NEVER EVER capable of a 20'94 swim without the aid of a "miracle-making" suit !!!!
The question of him being one of the fastest sprinter isn't relevant !! the answer is yes he's super good ,even better than that !! but his true value isn't a 20'94 50 m freestyle swim !!!! and the same goes for every single swimmer on earth !!! I'm sure no body can deliver a time like that without a miracle suit on !!!!
Fourth of all , how can a swimmer still not believe the suits is helping him ?????? I bought a Tyr leg suit four years ago and I dropped my fly time by FIVE SECONDS on a hundred !!! I was training better and growing too at the time but whatever !! now without a suit I go on average 2 seconds slower than with a suit on !! but considering I have lots of hair on my legs lool maybe fred would have a smaller advantage :d :D
Fith of all, how can a swimmer say that a suit helping buyoancy and denaturing the sport is a good thing !!!!!
How can people say accepting jaked, ... is a good thing.
Do you people want our sport govern by greed and money like european football is ??????
Sixth of all, I use to record everysingle worlds or olympics and I usually watched the tape when I had no new dvd :D :D today I'm not even sure that I'll be watching Rome !!! And I'm a HUGE fan of swimming !!
but I think FINA has gone way too far !!
I know a boycott isn't a good thng cause it would only hurt the athletes who trained for years to be at that level.
But I clearly think that a new governance body is desperately needed !!!! Speedo won't support the FINA and them beng the major sponsor they would be on their knees after the worlds if speedo was going against FINA !!
I believe Team USA and AUS shouldtake their leadership and ask for a whole new system where SWIMMERS AND COACHES ( former and actual) would sit , discuss, and edict the rules !!! for a great sport to stay great we need great people !!!! and FINA is clearly at the lowest possible at the moment !!!
How can they have gone AGAINST the advice of international coaches , ....
the reason is simple!! they think nobody will move and they think swimmers are pawns !!!
No rally we NEED a WHOLE NEW GOVERNANCE BODY !!!!
at the french revolution they beheaded the monarchy because they were out of touch with common people, now is th time to behead FINA an put competent persons insead !!!!
SWIMMERS SHOULD DECIDE FOR SWIMMERS !!!!!!!!
COACHES SHOULD DECIDE FOR SWIMMERS !!!!!
BUT NO more MONEY deciding delegates who maybe have never swum competitively , worn a swimsuit or even gone to a swimming pool except to deliver medals and make picture at the medal ceremones of the worlds champs.
No really I can't and I wil never understand people still thinking that everything is all right and that nothing has to be done !!
so I fully understand swimmers who will be wearing a " miracle making" suit at Rome cause otherwise they would be left behind .... the thing I can't and won't understand is if they stil think the suit is irrelevant !!
if they still think that !! I have only one thing to say to them !!!
You would be among the one I like to see beheaded !! so our sport can be great again !!

I think it's so great he doesn't need a suit to win!
He should just wear a speedo and prove how wonderful
he is . That tatoo alone is worth 1/2 a second go Freddy.

he is!!!!

he sounds upset in his french interviews because: he represents France, but trains in the US, and the French look down upon that

fred is the most hardest working sprinter ever. he's one of the best,and will win in Rome, and he doesn't need a damn suit to certainly do it. i mean, find him a sponsor, that's the #1 priority. we need him in the sport

So other then all the suit talk, does anyone else notice that Fred often sounds upset with the french in his interviews? Maybe we can get him to swim for the us. No matter what you think about his choice of suit, you can't deny how great it would be to have him on that relay!

how does he not have a sponsor.

God I hate these damm suits!

Fred Bousquet seems like a very cool guy. Great tat, lovely girlfriend (Understand he's dating Laure Manadou.) and no doubt he works harder in the pool & weight room than most can imagine. He's also - baseline - a heck of an athlete.
The community's response to an amazing time - two times, really; 47.15 for the 100 is some fast - is this endless debate about the bloody suit he was wearing. Not his fault, not anybody's fault.
It's nobody's fault 'cos everyones right: No way he'd have gone under 21 in briefs but, he was just following the rules and he & coach are right to do so. They have to 'cos if they don't, someone - everyone - else will.
Gee whiz (I'd like to use much stronger language but this is public site.) FINA - the supposed guardians of our sport - screwed the pooch on this one.

hes a really cool guy

The suits are not reason he went so fast. The reason Is he probily trains hard and is a talented swimmer.

Epic suit, but gone after 2010. Very sad state of affairs;
whatever he does it will always be tainted. The outcry of
about almost every county is the same (WRONG)!!!!!!

what a classy dude

epic tat, epic swimmer

Actually, now that I think about it, I am wrong. Putting on Fins is not a good comparison because that would never ever happen. Here's why:

There is already a swimming sport called immersion where the competitors wear monofins and breath through oxygen tanks. Never heard of it? That's because nobody cares about it.
As long as swimming sticks to suits(any kind) caps and goggles people will enjoy it.

nobody is saying Fred isnt the fastest swimmer. but to think that the suit did not help him at all??...come on.

Lets apply your logic to something else. With fins (flippers), I can go an 18 in a 50 yd. free. Without fins (flippers), in the 20.high range. I am the one that has woken up every morning and done all the work. Those fins (flippers) were sitting in a box somewhere not doing jack sh*t.

How can anyone blame Fred for doing everything he can (including wearing the best suit he can) to win? It seems absurd that anyone would ridicule an athlete for taking every step towards being a champion within the rules of the sport. Fred has always worn a suit within the rules and played within the rules.

http://suitwars.com

How about you grow a pair? I do agree with your sentiment of putting everyone in an identical suit. I propose that suit be a brief. Could Freddy go a 21.64? Maybe... Maybe not.

He sure was careful talkin' bout the suits, which is probably a good idea! Suit or not I'd like to see him succeed worlds. It doesn't seem like he has ever won anything big in the LCM events yet.

I never get sick of the suit talk. Why is it so hard for people to admit that some of these new suits have taken it to the next level. All wearing the same suit, Fred very well may kick everyone's butt - but he ain't goin 20.9 in a LZR.

grow a pair. the suit did not make fred go 20.94. Fred made Fred go a 20.94. He's the one that has woken up every morning and done all the work. The suit was sitting in a box somewhere not doing jack sh*t. Put everyone in an identical suit and you will see that Fred would still win. The Americans have the ability to keep pace, but I believe that Fred is going faster than 20.94 at worlds.

He thinks the Americans will keep pace with his suit/boat assisted 20.94? Not if they're only wearing LZRs.

Nice guy and all, but I can't help but think of the french guy in cheers when I see him talk. "Woody, I'm going to steel your girlfriend"

Cool dude...very humble